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You're clutching with both hands to this myth of you and I.

Our whole brokenness is because of this.

You and I should live as if you and I never heard of a you and an I.

Hi, I'm Sigal Samuel, co-host of The Way Through.

This summer, my colleague Sean Elling and I are taking turns talking to spiritual leaders and philosophers

who can help us navigate all the really hard stuff going on, the pandemic, the economic collapse, the racial injustice, all of it.

We're hoping these thinkers can help us widen our perspective and maybe even find something

meaningful or ennobling in this whole experience.

My guest today is Omid Safi, a professor of Islamic Studies at Duke University.

He specializes in Islamic mystics or Sufis, like the well-known poet Rumi.

Omid comes from an Iranian Muslim family, but he's lived in the American South for many, many years now,

and he feels a deep affinity with leaders of the civil rights movement, like Martin Luther King.

In fact, he sees certain parallels between their views and Sufi views on love and

justice. In this conversation, Omeid explains the Sufi tradition of radical love, which involves

both love for the divine and for our fellow humans, and what it would look like to be guided by that

tradition today?

What would Rumi do in a pandemic?

...