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The Good Fight

Musa Al-Gharbi on Why We Have Never Been Woke (Rerun)

The Good Fight

Yascha Mounk

News

4.6907 Ratings

🗓️ 27 August 2025

⏱️ 59 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Yascha Mounk and Musa Al-Gharbi discuss why so many members of elite groups like to pretend they’re oppressed. Musa al-Gharbi is an assistant professor in the School of Communication and Journalism at Stony Brook University. His most recent book is ⁠We Have Never Been Woke: The Cultural Contradictions of a New Elite⁠. In this week's conversation, Yascha Mounk and Musa Al-Gharbi discuss the tendency of certain elite groups to lay claim to marginalized identities as a form of symbolic capital; the challenges posed by "asymmetric multiculturalism," in which we encourage certain groups to organize along identitarian lines while discouraging others from doing the same; and how we can apply greater consistency to our analysis of social dynamics. ⁠This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clari⁠⁠t⁠⁠y⁠⁠.⁠ Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following ⁠this link on your phone⁠. Email: [email protected]  Website: ⁠http://www.persuasion.community⁠ Podcast production by ⁠Jack Shields⁠, and Brendan Ruberry Connect with us! ⁠Spotify⁠ | ⁠Apple⁠ | ⁠Google⁠ Twitter: ⁠@Yascha_Mounk⁠ & ⁠@joinpersuasion⁠ Youtube: ⁠Yascha Mounk⁠ LinkedIn: ⁠Persuasion Community⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit ⁠megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

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0:02.0

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and I'm not to say that because I work here. Get started today at banta.com.

0:31.1

Thank you so much for being a loyal listener to the good fight. The podcast has expanded significantly over the course of the last

0:40.6

few years. We have millions of downloads a year at this point and it is all thanks to you. But our

0:49.2

hardworking team that edits these conversations and prepares the transcripts for them needs a little bit of a

0:57.9

holiday. So for these two weeks, we are rerunning some of the conversations from the last

1:07.0

months and years of which we are most proud that we think you might enjoy listening to

1:14.8

again. We will be back at the beginning of September with two weekly conversations about

1:23.2

big ideas and a regular perhaps weekly new format of a Good Fight Club in which I invite

1:31.2

some of my favorite thinkers and podcast guests to discuss the political events of the past

1:38.3

week. I hope you two are enjoying the rest of the summer, and I very much look forward to welcoming

1:45.9

you back at the beginning of September with our new content.

1:51.4

In the meanwhile, if you want to support the podcast, please consider going to yashamunk.

1:57.0

com and becoming the paying subscriber.

2:01.6

A lot of times what people do, if they want to know what, say, LGBTQ people or Hispanic people or whoever, think about a given topic,

2:16.6

because they won't try to

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