Hey there, we're here with Mark Sermon, president of Mozilla, and we're going to be talking about

open source AI. Mark, thank you so much for joining us.

Great to meet you. I'm happy to be here. Thanks for having me on, Rich.

Sure. So in 2020, long before Chat, GBT mania, you wrote a paper about trustworthy AI.

Tell us what does that mean to you?

Well, Mozilla, as you might know, makes Firefox, but we didn't make Firefox for its

own sake.

We made it because we really want to make sure the internet was something in the hands

of people, right, that people are protected, but people also can make choices. And in the Firefox

era, that meant privacy, it meant being able to make a web page, meant all those things. And

trustworthy AI was really, you know, us trying to say, what does it look like to have that

Firefox effect

in the AI era? And there's two things that for us make up trust for the AI. One, the idea of

accountability, which is something often when people talk about ethical AI, responsible AI,

means if something bad happens, that, you, that the people who made that system are

held accountable.

That's something we're working through.

How did we build that into AI systems?

How do we build that into our laws?

But the other half, in addition to accountability, is agency.

Can we control how the AI works?

Can we see how the AI works? Is it working on our side of the

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