Moment of Truth?
TALKING POLITICS
Catherine Carr
4.7 • 2.5K Ratings
🗓️ 28 March 2019
⏱️ 50 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
As parliament finally gets the chance to indicate its Brexit preferences - if it has any - we discuss the real choices now facing MPs and government. What is the sequence of events that would actually prevent a no-deal Brexit? Can the Withdrawal Agreement be separated from the Political Declaration? And if it can, will MPs eventually have to vote for it? Plus we ask how long we can avoid another general election and we discuss whether Theresa May's survival to this point tells us more about her resilience or about the dysfunctionality of British politics. With Helen Thompson, Chris Bickerton, and Catherine Barnard, Professor of EU Law.
Talking Points:
What is the relationship between the withdrawal agreement and the political declaration?
- The political declaration is about the future; the withdrawal agreement is about wrapping up the past.
- Article 50, which is the basis for the withdrawal agreement, does not allow discussions about the future.
- Anything about the future is done under separate legal provisions.
The only feasible options now are no deal, May’s deal, or revoke article 50.
- Are we underrating the possibility of no deal? How does parliament prevent it if it can’t do anything else.
- Both sides seem to be sticking to the same strategy, which is to put their party first.
- The only thing parliament can do unilaterally is revoke Article 50—everything else depends on the EU. This is the nuclear option.
There are divisions within the EU over Brexit: Merkel doesn’t want a disruptive Brexit; Macron doesn’t want Britain in the EU.
- A disorderly Brexit poses economic risks for Europe.
- It’s hard to predict what the EU would do about another request for an extension.
Any form of compromise doesn’t work: it’s either too little for remainers or too much for leavers.
- The middle ground, which may be economically sensible, doesn’t work politically.
Have we learned something about the office of the prime minister in all of this?
- It’s really hard to throw people out of office.
- Becoming prime minister now—the risk is enormous that your legacy would almost immediately be one of dramatic failure.
- If the withdrawal agreement passes, people will want the job. But now?
- The underestimated explanation of Theresa May’s resilience is the fixed-term parliament act. This is a fundamentally different constitutional arrangement.
Mentioned in this Episode:
Further Learning:
- The Fate of Theresa May
- Adam Tooze on Europe
- More on the Fixed-term Parliaments Act
- Catherine Barnard’s podcast
And as ever, recommended reading curated by our friends at the LRB can be found here: lrb.co.uk/talking
Transcript
Click on a timestamp to play from that location
| 0:00.0 | Hello my name is David Ronsman and this is Talking Politics. Today is Indicative Votes |
| 0:13.0 | Day in the House of Commons. I think we have no idea what those votes are going to indicate |
| 0:17.3 | but we will try and make sense of what they actually mean. |
| 0:26.0 | Indicative Votes Day in politics is brought to you in partnership with the London Review |
| 0:28.8 | of Books. As politics speeds up, slow down with a subscription to the LRB where Brexit |
| 0:35.9 | and Trump are only part of a picture that includes, well, everything else. Read relevant pieces |
| 0:42.4 | and subscribe at a special rate at lrb.co.uk forward slash talking. |
| 0:53.9 | Helen Thompson with us, Chris Bickerton. It's a delight to have for the first time Catherine |
| 0:58.6 | Barnard, Cambridge is blessed in having a deep bench of professors of European or EU law |
| 1:04.4 | and Catherine is one of those. She's been a very prominent public voice throughout the |
| 1:09.5 | Brexit debate, including a couple of weeks ago on question time, BBC's Question Time, |
| 1:15.2 | which kind of has a reputation now as the bear pit of Brexit where people go and suddenly |
| 1:19.8 | discover that this nation is way more divided even than we realise. Was it like that? |
| 1:24.0 | It was, you've given a warm up question before you go in there and the warm up question |
| 1:28.0 | was about knife crime and should people be who've got the Carrie Knives be essentially |
| 1:32.0 | locked up for a very long period of time, which the answer was unanimously no because |
| 1:36.3 | lots of them were kids. The audience was pretty quiet and then suddenly the cameras go on, |
| 1:42.0 | the first question was about Brexit, entire programmes about Brexit and suddenly the audience |
| 1:47.4 | absolutely took off. There were two very vociferous Brexiters sitting slapping in the |
| 1:54.3 | middle of the audience, absolutely the eye line of Fiona Bruce and they were loud and |
| 2:00.0 | proud of their views and this just caused the rest of the audience to go completely wild. |
| 2:06.0 | And so it really was quite an experience and on the panel the politicians were at it hammer |
... |
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