Hello everyone welcome back to the epic gardening podcast in this special two-part episode series with Dr Michelle

Frank she's a clinical psychologist.

She's the author of the book, A Radical Guide for Women with ADHD.

And we really just started chatting in my Instagram DM.

So she sent me a message.

And I've got a pretty deep interest in psychology despite not really knowing a whole lot about it.

I just read books, you know.

I haven't read a lot of the research or anything like that, but it is very fascinating and, you, I think when you think about gardening, you think of its tie to the human experience, to the kitchen, to the health aspect of your body.

There's so many ties to it, and one of them that at least I've heard a lot

Michelle and I've gotten a bunch of like media requests lately as gardening has

been on the rise of oh can we talk about mindfulness and gardening?

And how does that, how does that benefit the gardener?

And I think to myself sometimes, well, I wish that we had better definitions, right?

So what is, from the perspective of a clinical psychologist,

what does mindfulness actually mean?

So a lot of people hear mindfulness

and immediately think meditation.

And that can be the case, but that's not necessarily the case.

Mindfulness really means present moment awareness.

It means pausing and being present with what is. And one of my

questions for you really was like it sounds to me like you practice mindfulness all the time and everything you say about observation

and just your way of being in the garden and talking about it and yeah I'm curious did you know that that was like is that intentional did you know you

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