Michael Scherer: Inside RFK Jr.’s Rise

To The Contrary with Charlie Sykes

Charlie Sykes

News Commentary, Politics, News

4.9 • 719 Ratings

🗓️ 25 November 2025

⏱️ 46 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Charlie Sykes speaks with The Atlantic’s Michael Scherer about his in-depth cover story on Robert F. Kennedy Jr., now one of the most influential—and divisive—figures shaping American science policy. Scherer discusses Kennedy’s complicated personal history, his fraught relationship with scientific institutions, and his unexpected alliance with Donald Trump. The conversation explores what Kennedy’s ascent reveals about a country losing trust in expertise—and why understanding him matters, even for his critics.

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Transcript

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0:00.0	I'm Charlie Sykes.
0:11.4	Welcome back to the To the Contrary podcast, an extraordinary weekend.
0:15.6	The world turned upside down.
0:17.1	Marjorie Taylor Green is out.
0:19.0	And Trump has a new BFF, Zoran, the new mayor of New York.
0:22.9	We're not going to even get into that because we have to talk about the scariest thing that I saw
0:27.2	today. The cover story of the January issue of the Atlantic has a picture of RFC Jr.
0:35.5	With the headline, the most Powerful Man in Science.
0:41.3	Joining me to talk about that, terrifying headline is the author of the piece, Atlantic
0:48.9	staff writer, Michael Scherer. Michael, thank you so much for joining me. I appreciate it very much.
0:53.8	Yeah, thanks for having me.
0:55.7	Okay, we're going to get to the poetry of RFK Jr. a little bit later. You didn't cover it in
0:59.9	your article, but I have to ask you about it. But let's just talk about this cover story,
1:04.5	the most powerful man in science. And is he holding a rosary in that cover photo? Now is he holding a rosary in that cover photo?
1:11.6	No, is he holding a rosary, but I wasn't at the photo shoot.
1:15.6	We sent a photographer to his office at HHS, but he pulled the rosary out, and he wanted to be posed with the rosary.
1:23.6	He knew this was a shot for this story.
1:25.6	He basically at that point knew what the story
1:28.1	was all about. And I thought it was really interesting that that was the image he wanted of
1:32.9	himself in a story about the fights over science and why he's doing it.
1:38.3	Well, the headline of your story is why is Robert F. Kennedy Jr. so convinced he is right.
1:43.8	You spent a lot of time with him. You had a lot of
	...

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