How do you know when something's finished?

I think there's a creeping feeling that you get where you're like, I'm not making this better.

You know, it's kind of like when you're in a barber's chair, like the longer you're there,

this guy can only remove hair.

Do you know what I'm saying?

Yeah, exactly.

You shouldn't be there too long.

It's like a moment that if you're like, it's been a while.

You want to look for a mirror.

So it's diminishing returns in a way.

Yeah, like there's a point where you're like, if I stay in this, it's not going to get better.

I'm sure you like write a joke and you're like, that's too many words.

I did too much to get better. I'm sure you like write a joke and you're like, that's too many words. I did too much to get there. You know, it's enough. Leave it. There's like a instinct, right? Yeah, mine I think is

more do I still feel this way. Yeah, that's the same thing. Yeah, that's more mine.

My guest on today's podcast is someone I'm lucky enough to call a friend and a human being who has achieved one of the hardest things in the world which is

becoming extremely successful and genre defying in many ways as an artist.

I always think about how crazy it must have been back in the days

to be friends with someone like Picasso or Michelangelo or any of those people.

And I'm not comparing artists, but for me, Derek Forgell is the modern equivalent.

He's an artist.

He's a painter, a sculptor, one of my favorite people

who's able to bring history, identity and joy

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