It's amazing how a world creeps up on you. I was in Bangkok as it happened. I think it was

1986, something like that. And I was speaking on the phone and one of my staff here said, Mike,

you're in the Sunday Times Rich List. I said, get away. So yes you are.

Hello and welcome to the Independence Daily Travel Podcast with me Simon Calder. It's Friday the night

of May and that means it's the final part of my exclusive week-long series with the Trail Finders

founder and chairman Sir Mike Gouli. Today he tells me about his relationship with the late

queen, his succession planning for his travel

firm and what he does with his considerable cash, and that doesn't include buying super yachts.

But we started by talking about his upbringing and how reduced family circumstances shaped his business life. We were living extremely well

by brother and I at the best schools, very nice houses, two cars, God knows what, and suddenly it

all kind of dried up. And I saw the misery that produces, because it's far better to have never had many money than to have some and then don't have it.

So I think it's made incredibly cautious.

Another thing we've done within 12-farmes is that nearly all the offices and real estate we operate from, we own the freehold.

So wherever possible, we put the money together to get the freehold. So wherever possible, we put the

money together to get the freehold. We don't have landlords. Sir Mike, who owns Trailfinders

outright, is now a fixture in the Sunday Times Rich List. But he recalls the first time he

appeared in that annual wealth register.

It's amazing how wealth creeps up on you.

I was in Bangkok as it happened.

I think it was 1986, something like that.

And I was speaking on the phone.

And one of my staff here said,

...