All of us agree that the current political system is not working and it doesn't matter where you sit on the political divide with the federal government consolidating and amassing power it's becoming increasingly difficult to see how they're serving the people instead of the beast that it's become but what's the answer is there a solution that moves closer to what America's founding fathers had envisioned nearly 250 years ago my guest today max borders joins to talk about the concept

of his newest book under throw how Jefferson's dangerous ideas will spark a new revolution we talk about what it truly means to be free the idea of a quote unquote national divorce where socialized services work and where they go too far the power of decentralization how innovation is an act of subversion and the difference between an overthrow and an under throw to change the world your a man of action you live life to the fullest embrace your fears

your own path when life knocks you down you get back up one more time every time you are not easily deterred and defeated rugged resilient strong this is your life this is who you are this is who you will become at the end of the day and after all is said and done you can call yourself a man

gentlemen what is going on today my name is Brian mclerk I'm your host and the founder of the order of man podcast and movement welcome here today this is a big two weeks for us we opened enrollment to our exclusive fraternal organization called the iron council and want to extend an invite to you we're going to be open until the end of this month September

and would love to have you join I could go on and on about the benefits but I want to share a quick testimonial before we get into the conversation today this what comes from one of our members of the iron council it's Marcus a girl he says when I think about the work that needs to be done each birthday I've wondered how I've got to where I am and how it's been possible to be honest it comes down to the men that have served me over the past two years and who continue to have focus that aligns with me building lives of service whether this is a

process is to ourselves to our men in our circle our family workplace et cetera allows for a byproduct of personal growth and development to occur beyond our natural and selfish abilities when you surround yourself with men that have a mission to show up who you can lean on no matter the circumstances and who will mentor you guide you or hold the line of accountability the achievements are unparalleled in the spirit of momentum worry I choose the work beside these men to serve and to be served so that I can rest

having had a life of value meaning fulfillment and peace my why the iron council is one of the greatest impacts of my life so a quick testimonial I'll share one with you a little bit later in the episode but again I don't want to just ramble at you all the benefits there's so many men over a thousand men now being served inside the iron council and who are serving others and if you're interested in learning more about what we're doing there had to order a man calm slash iron council that's order a man calm slash iron council

guys let's get into the conversation today I've got max borders on he is the founder and executive director of social evolution which is a nonprofit organization and they're dedicated to liberating humanity through innovation he's also the co founder of the future frontiers conference and festival his books include the decentralized the social singularity after collapse and of course his latest book under throw how Jefferson's dangerous ideas

will spark a new revolution enjoy fellas max good to see you glad you could join me on the podcast today thank you so much yeah I'm always intrigued when when obviously we're we're talking a little bit about or we will be talking about politics in this and and government specifically and I'm always intrigued when there's interesting and fascinating ideas that I don't know if I necessarily agree with 100% but I'm so glad that we can have a

these types of conversations whether we agree or not so we can come to some sort of conclusion because I don't I don't think what we're doing right now seems to be working very well for the for the common man right on couldn't couldn't agree more with that who knows what's what's before us but yeah I totally agree about that it's not working yeah well you talk a lot about the concept of decentralized systems as as a way to minimize big government I think most people are

probably familiar with it when it comes to you know state sovereignty for example over federal sovereignty but it seems to me like you're you're talking about something even even more decentralized than than a state level of my understanding correctly certainly yeah that that could be the case Texas for example is a big state and Texas might want to be able to break up into further or other jurisdictions depending on you know where someone lands and what they want their community

communities to look like and the kind of the kind of rules and laws they want to instantiate in their communities as sovereign peoples what is well how would you define community because that could be my neighborhood of you know five to ten houses or it could be a community of a hundred thousand people so at what level are you advocating for with regards to the community level of of governance well if you think about the stuff that we we want to talk about as being in our community

community and we're talking about land and what sits on land so some of the stuff in terra firma on terra firma it's important to think what how do I want to live and how do we want to instantiate you know roads lights schools local things right and how do we maximize everybody's participation in this at the most local feasible level that is of course important in that that's we're there we're talking about territorial goods but we're talking about territorial

goods but most of what we talk about when we think about a constitution is not territorial goods at all so kind of doesn't make any sense that I have to oblige my neighbor to live the exact way I do and this is a crazy idea from this Belgian thinker named Dupuit who wrote this in 1860 he's basically like instead of you being a monarchist a Republican Democrat of whatever you like why can't you just

subscribe to your own sort of civil association so we can have one sense of community which is hey I need to get to know my neighbors we need to look out for each other and we can make collective decisions about what we want to see in our communities at a local scale but the other sense of community is there a bunch of people around the world who think maybe that people ought to be more sovereign in general

and treat that as a mission right and those those sovereign people people who are in the idea of self sovereignty might want to might be a sprinkle here and a handful there but together they can self organize under their own species of law and they might not all be in the United States some might be in Canada some might be in on the other side of the world but they share those values so it's it's a it's a it's getting people to think about this idea

coupling law from conquered territory which is the way history is born out this would be a significant change from that yeah I'm wondering about like if we were to take this to the

eighth degree it would be me deciding how I'm going to basically live my life and lead myself and although I I can certainly make the case for that there's also an

inherent risk in that I could be a potential danger to the society right or in in this case my neighborhood you know for

putting down to a small area I could say well you know I want that my neighbors you know whatever so I'll just go ahead and walk

and do his house and grab his TV off the wall and I'll go ahead and take that or I might have an issue with the the

junker that's you know sat out in my neighbor's yard for the past two years I think there is some sort of

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