From the historic campus of Hillsdale College in Hillsdale, Michigan, where the good, the true, and the beautiful are taught, nurtured, and honored, this is the Radio Free Hillsdale Hour, bringing the activity and education of the college to listeners across the country.

It imposes all these just terrible, really dangerous rules and mandates on the states that would get rid of every single security or safety protocol that states have in place.

This is your host, Scott Bertram, and that's Hans von Spikovsky, senior legal fellow with the Heritage Foundation.

We'll talk with him a little bit later on in today's program as we dive into HR1, the election reform bill,

currently being debated in the United States Senate.

Up first, Dr. Matthew Meyen, director of academic programs for Hillsdale in D.C.

and assistant professor of government.

Dr. Meant, thanks for joining us.

Thanks for having me, Scott.

You know, who says Twitter is worthless?

I saw you tweet a few times on a singular topic over the past few months and thought

it would make a really good topic for our conversation. And to put it as succinct as possible,

we'll call this good poetics and good politics and how they relate. Where do you begin to draw

this connection between poetics and politics?

Probably not from Twitter.

It's supposed to be the short answer.

Yeah, so, I mean, in terms of where we draw it from in the sort of Judeo-Christian, Greco-Roman tradition of the West,

you know, this is a conversation that you could say started

with Socrates in Plato's Republic, the poets and the philosophers, right?

And there's this sort of fight between them.

Socrates wants to kick the poet out of the beautiful city.

But in his arguments, he's constantly quoting Homer, and you can see he's

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