From the ACLU, this is at Liberty.

I'm Emerson Sykes, a staff attorney at the ACLU and your host.

On today's show, we're joined by Melissa Murray, a professor of law at New York University Law School,

and a leading scholar on the legal regulation of sex and sexuality.

She's also the author of numerous articles, including Marriage as Punishment.

So today's show is perfect for Valentine's Day.

We'll discuss the legal institution of marriage as it has been used by and against marginalized people,

including women, people of color,

LGBT people, and interestingly, the unmarried.

Professor Murray, welcome to the podcast.

Thanks for having me.

A lot of your scholarship revolves around the issue of marriage under the law, and marriage,

as we know, means many different things to

many different people. So I wonder if you can just start us off by giving us a working definition

of marriage as a legal construct. So marriage is a legal construct typically refers to the

joining of two people in a union that is recognized by the state.

And so that's a critical portion.

And it distinguishes civil marriage from, for example, religious marriage,

in that the state recognition of the union is paramount.

So individuals can be married for religious purposes,

but the idea of civil marriage is really about the state

recognizing you as a unit. And the state will regulate your entry into civil marriage, and it can

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