You are about to listen to a BBC podcast and I'd like to tell you a bit about what goes into making one.

I'm Sadata Sese, an assistant commissioner of podcasts for BBC Sounds.

I pull a lot of levers to support a diverse range of podcasts on all sorts of subjects,

relationships, identity, comedy, even one that mixes poetry, music and inner city life.

So one day I'll be helping host develop their ideas, the next fact-checking, a feature,

and the next looking at how a podcast connects with its audience, and maybe that's you.

So if you like this podcast, check out some others on BBC Sounds.

My guest today is a testament to the power of persistence.

His first novel, John Crow's Devil, was rejected over 70 times.

His second, The Book of Nightwomen, was also turned down by 20 publishers before finding a home.

But with his third, a brief history of seven killings,

Marlon James won the 2015 Man Booker Prize,

making him the first Jamaican to do so.

James's follow-up was Black Leopard Red Wolf,

which he began writing before his Booker win.

It was heralded as the African Game of Thrones, an epic, ambitious fantasy which melded fable and magic in a language

all of its own. For James, who grew up gay in the Pentecostal Church, seeing a spectrum of sexuality

reflected in African mythology

was a creative release. The second instalment of the Dark Star trilogy has just been published.

Moon Witch, Spider King, brings together recurring themes of James' work,

violence, power, and a rich imaginative world where characters fight

for both survival and enlightenment. Sogolon is the titular Moon Witch. She appeared in the

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