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The Ezra Klein Show

Mark Bittman Cooked Everything. Now He Wants to Change Everything.

The Ezra Klein Show

New York Times Opinion

Society & Culture, Government, News

4.611K Ratings

🗓️ 16 March 2021

⏱️ 49 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Mark Bittman taught me to cook. I read his New York Times cooking column, “The Minimalist,” religiously. I bought “How to Cook Everything,” that red brick of a cookbook, and then, when I gave up meat, I bought its green companion, “How to Cook Everything Vegetarian.” He was like my cranky, no-B.S. food uncle. But now Bittman wants to do more than teach me, or you, how to cook. He wants to convince us that the whole food system has fallen into calamity. His new book, "Animal, Vegetable, Junk" is a stunning reinterpretation of humanity’s relationship to the food it forages, grows and, nowadays, concocts. It’s about the marvel of the modern food system, which feeds more than seven billion people and offers more food, with more variety, at less cost, than ever before. But even more so, it’s about the malignancy of that food system, which is sickening us, poisoning the planet and inflicting so much suffering on other creatures that the mind breaks contemplating it. Even as someone who is fairly critical of our modern food system, I wasn’t prepared for the scale or sweep of Bittman’s indictment. And I’m not sure I’ve bought into every piece of it. But it is bracing. And it raises profound questions about the relationship among humans, animals, plants, capitalism, technology and morality. So I asked him on the show to discuss it. Recommendations: "Classic Indian Cooking" by Julie Sahni "How to Cook Everything Vegetarian" by Mark Bittman "Lord Emsworth" by P.G. Wodehouse "The New Book of Middle Eastern Food" by Claudia Roden "The Old World Kitchen: The Rich Tradition of European Peasant Cooking" by Elisabeth Luard "The Optimist's Telescope" by Bina Venkataraman "The Wuggie Norple Story" by Daniel Manus Pinkwater and Tomie dePaola You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of "The Ezra Klein Show" at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast, and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein. Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected]. “The Ezra Klein Show” is produced by Rogé Karma and Jeff Geld; fact-checking by Michelle Harris; original music by Isaac Jones; mixing by Jeff Geld.

Transcript

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0:00.0

I'm Mr. Client and this is the Asher Clancho.

0:18.6

I've read Mark Whitman forever.

0:20.3

I read him at the New York Times when he wrote the minimalist cooking column, which I loved.

0:24.5

I don't think I can tell you how many recipes I made from that.

0:27.3

I bought his cookbooks.

0:31.2

I had had to cook vegetarian.

0:35.4

I read his food policy writing.

0:38.9

He's like my cranky food uncle.

0:40.3

He's been there at every step in my food journey.

0:42.6

I've learned how to cook from him and I've learned more importantly a lot about how to

0:46.4

think about food from him.

0:47.6

So when he sent me his new book, Animal Vegetable Junk, I was excited, but I was totally

0:53.4

unprepared for what the book really is.

0:55.8

It is this sweeping history and reinterpretation of humanity's relationship with food.

1:01.2

Going back to our hunter gathered days, tracing the development of agriculture, the way that

1:05.1

changed our social mores and the way that changed our laws, then the industrialization of agriculture,

1:10.6

the pressure of both technological advance and the profit mode of the way capitalism and

1:15.5

philosophy converge to create a food system that and there's really no other way to put

1:19.5

this is poisoning us and poisoning the earth and inflicting cruelty to other creatures.

1:25.7

On a scale that breaks your mind if you try to contemplate it.

1:30.6

And that is not to say that system does nothing good.

1:32.9

It feeds billions of people with a variety that we never could have imagined at another

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