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The Ezra Klein Show

Marilynne Robinson on Biblical Beauty, Human Evil and the Idea of Israel

The Ezra Klein Show

New York Times Opinion

Society & Culture, Government, News

4.611K Ratings

🗓️ 5 March 2024

⏱️ 62 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Marilynne Robinson is one of the great living novelists. She has won a Pulitzer Prize and a National Humanities Medal, and Barack Obama took time out of his presidency to interview her at length. Her fiction is suffused with a sense of holiness: Mundane images like laundry drying on a line seem to be illuminated by a divine force. Whether she’s telling the story of a pastor confronting his mortality in “Gilead” or two sisters coming of age in small-town Idaho in “Housekeeping,” her novels wrestle with theological questions of what it means to be human, to see the world more deeply, to seek meaning in life. In recent years, Robinson has tightened the links between her literary pursuits and her Christianity, writing essays about Calvinism and other theological traditions. Her forthcoming work of nonfiction is “Reading Genesis,” a close reading of the first book of the Old Testament (or the Torah, as I grew up knowing it). It’s a countercultural reading in many respects — one that understands the God in Genesis as merciful rather than vengeful and humans as flawed but capable of astounding acts of grace. No matter one’s faith, Robinson unearths wisdom in this core text that applies to many questions we wrestle with today. We discuss the virtues evoked in Genesis — beauty, forgiveness and hospitality — and how to cultivate what Robinson calls “a mind that’s schooled toward good attention.” And we end on her reading of the story of Israel, which I found to be challenging, moving and evocative at a time when that nation has been front and center in the news. Book Recommendations: Foxe’s Book of Martyrs by John Foxe The Vision of Piers Plowman by William Langland Theologia Germanica Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected]. You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs. This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Annie Galvin. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris and Kate Sinclair. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing from Efim Shapiro. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Annie Galvin, Rollin Hu and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Sonia Herrero and Alex Engebretson.

Transcript

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0:00.0

From New York Times opinion, this is the Ezra Klein Show. Marilyn Robinson is one of the great living novelists. Her book Gilead won the

0:28.1

Pulitzer Prize for Fiction in 2005. It is easily among my favorite novels. if you have not read it you really

0:33.6

should but she has all these other beautiful books housekeeping Lila

0:37.5

jack many many more Robinson's work has this quality of glowing, there's a holiness to it, and she's been

0:45.5

tightening that link in recent years. Her books of essays, her works of non-fiction

0:50.8

have been circling her Christianity and her faith and

0:54.4

practically her readings in relationship to older theologians like John Calvin.

0:58.1

But her latest book goes directly to the source. It is called Reading Genesis and it is exactly that. It is Robinson's deep reading of the biblical book of Genesis.

1:09.0

And I'll admit that I wasn't sure what to expect of it.

1:12.0

Genesis, if you have read it, is a very

1:14.5

strange text. The story of creation of in the beginning and the story of Adam and

1:20.5

Eve of Noah and the flood and then the story of this wandering family, its

1:27.3

lineages, its hardships, its crimes against others, against itself, its despair's marriages, its children, its deaths.

1:36.8

There's a lot in Genesis to turn you off religion.

1:39.8

It does not have the quality for me when I read it that Robinson's work does. It does not always

1:45.1

give off this holiness. And when I read it particularly when I was young, it was hard for me

1:50.5

to look past all the horror in it. So my experience It was

1:55.0

unexpected.

1:58.0

unexpected. I mean, I was intrigued.

2:00.0

I mean, I was interested. I was intrigued.

2:01.0

I love Robinson's work, and I always feel I should have a deeper literary relationship with the text of the Torah and the Bible

2:07.8

given how essential they are in our culture and in my tradition.

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