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The Ezra Klein Show

Mahmoud Khalil Tells His Story

The Ezra Klein Show

New York Times Opinion

Society & Culture, Government, News

4.611K Ratings

🗓️ 5 August 2025

⏱️ 82 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Mahmoud Khalil was a leader in Columbia University’s pro-Palestinian protests. In March, he was arrested by ICE agents and held for more than 100 days in a Louisiana detention facility. The Trump administration claims Khalil is deportable — even though he has a green card, married to a U.S. citizen — because he poses a threat to U.S. foreign policy goals. Khalil’s alleged offense here is speech. Khalil is out now on bail, and he’s still speaking. I wanted to hear what he had to say. Mentioned: A Letter From Palestinian Activist Mahmoud Khalil The Hundred Years’ War on Palestine by Rashid Khalidi Book Recommendations: One Day, Everyone Will Have Always Been Against This by Omar El Akkad The Question of Palestine by Edward Said My Promised Land by Ari Shavit Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected]. You can find the transcript and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.html This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Rollin Hu and Jack McCordick. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Marie Cascione, Annie Galvin, Elias Isquith, Kristin Lin, Marina King and Jan Kobal. Original music by Carole Sabouraud, Aman Sahota and Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The director of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.

Transcript

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0:00.0

The

0:07.0

The Across the 2024 election, Donald Trump and the people behind him said again and again that they were here to restore

0:40.5

free speech to this country. Then they got power, and this administration came after speech in a way

0:48.0

the left never dared to do, never wanted to do. You saw it with the hunt to cancel any grant that had the word diversity

0:56.1

anywhere near it. You saw it as countless organizations that depended on the government,

1:01.4

or that feared the government, began reworking their mission statements or censoring their

1:06.0

websites to avoid any words it might offend anyone in this administration. You saw it as border agents

1:12.7

looked through travelers' phones to see if they had said anything that the administration wouldn't

1:16.9

like. And you saw it as immigration agents began yanking people off the streets for the crime

1:23.2

of nothing more than speech. Among the first of these was Mahmoud Khalil, who'd been a Palestinian graduate

1:29.2

student at Columbia, a leader in the school's anti-Israel protests, Cleal's a green cardholder. He's

1:35.0

married to a U.S. citizen. His sole offense had been to speak out against Israel in a way this

1:41.2

administration did not like. He was detained under authority the U.S.

1:45.5

Secretary of State has to cancel the residency of non-citizens who threaten U.S. foreign policy.

1:51.3

Did this grad student at Columbia actually threatened U.S. foreign policy? Is that how fragile

1:57.1

our foreign policy is? No one really believed that. Kalil was not followed into his building

2:03.3

by playing closed officers and taken to an ICE detention center in Louisiana for more than a

2:08.5

hundred days, imprisoned there while his wife gave birth, because the U.S. government feared him.

2:14.6

He was in prison there because U.S. government wanted others like him to fear

2:19.3

them. It wanted non-citizens and immigrants to stop speaking out. It wanted everyone to ask,

2:27.1

if they could do this to Khalil, could they do it to me? If they could detain him on such

2:31.9

flimsy grounds, could they not come up with a reason to detain me?

...

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