You're listening to live courtroom coverage of the trial of Karen Reed from the Hidden Killers podcast and True Crime Today. Now, back to the courtroom.

Okay. Thank you. So, I'm the I'm

the Dr. Russell, were you aware that very small fragments, charred of plastic that match the broken tail light of the defendant's

Lexus, were found when criminologist scraped Mr. O'Keefe's shirt and sweatshirt.

Yes, I became aware of that.

Did you become aware of that before or after you came to your opinion and conclusion

that Mr. O'Keefe's arm abrasions were not caused by a collision or an impact?

After.

And when you learn that,

did you get a chance to see this photograph

to see how small many of those pieces were?

Yes.

And would you agree that broken plastic,

like broken glass,

can tear fabric?

Yes.

Would you agree that broken plastic, like broken glass, can rub up against a person's skin,

and if enough friction is caused, it can cause abrasions?

Yes.

Would you agree that if fragments like this were randomly in the sweatshirt, that it could cause

cuts or abrasions to Mr. O'Keefe's arm?

I don't believe that fragments that are randomly in the sweatshirt or clothing would cause the parallel abrasions, the pattern of the parallel abrasions that we saw in the arm.

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