Hi there, welcome to the liturgist podcast. My name is Michael Gunger. The mission of the liturgists is love more, suffer less.

And while that mission may sound pretty straightforward and, you know, uncontroversial, it is not without objection out there.

I just read a Facebook comment some the other day from somebody who was talking about how that mission is impossible and doomed to fail because it's opposites like to love more or you have to suffer.

That's the call of Jesus they were saying. That's like to suffer with Jesus and that's how you love.

And I think that's a fairly common perspective, especially for those who have grown up Christian or have been influenced by Christianity, which is most of us.

We have this idea that to love others well demands some sort of sacrifice of the self. Right? It's like this grand romantic thing to like sacrifice yourself so that you can love others.

But what if love drew love, the fullness of love isn't actually a sacrifice of the self, but a fulfillment of the self.

What if it were what would it be like to switch the lenses like that?

I think it's actually more accurate to the kind of love that we want. For instance, if you're a parent, think about it. Who would you want to watch your kids to babysit your kids?

Someone who is in the throes of suffering and despair or someone who's happy and fulfilled.

Or let's say you want to go on a date with somebody and you want to feel loved.

Would you rather be with somebody who is in despair and suffering or someone who's happy and fulfilled?

The truth is we've been sold a lie. We've been sold this idea that love demands suffering demands sacrifice that if you want to love me, if you want to love your country, if you want to love your church, your God.

Well, you better forget about your own needs and desires for sake yourself for the sake of others. It feels to us that it's a holy thing to suffer.

If I could suffer with Christ, then I would be holy.

What if that's a lie? The reason we'd rather have a happy person watching our kids are going on a date is because we know experientially that love flows out of abundance, love flows out of life, out of happiness and fullness.

One conditional love is not usually the response that flows out of a deep suffering. It's actually quite the opposite.

When we suffer more, we tend to close ourselves off, to shut ourselves down, to love less.

When we suffer more, we love less. And when we love more, we suffer less. This may sound like I'm trying to be deeper or something. It's actually very plain and simple.

If I set some food down in front of you and say, here you go, you need to eat this.

What's going to make you suffer more? If you love that food or if you hate it, of course, if you hate it, you're going to suffer more. If you love the food, you're going to suffer less.

Again, this is very simple, but it's see, but it is also somehow profound.

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