Wow, and so when did you know it was going to be something that was going to start being used by everybody potentially.

There were going to be plugging their Metamask wallets in and their hot wallets in and using your dashboard.

It's a good question, you know, so I think for us there was a real turning point, which was a really bad experience actually.

It's in our book, for anyone who wants to go check out, they can read the Wall Street Arrows over, it's a great book with DeFi.

And so we were somewhat more risk-averse, I would say, than some of the investors in the space.

Some of you were just total de-gents willing to go for the million-eight percent APY, you know,

farm for two days and get out, hope that you don't get scammed and jump onto the next one.

We were not quite so crazy, you know, we had money from previous businesses and,

you know, once you've made the money, you don't really want to lose that money.

So we were being fairly conservative and one of the, I remember specifically, I was in Dubai and I was

walking with my one co-founder and we were talking about there was a project called Compounder and it

was paying about 100% a year on stablecoins. Sounds great, right? 100% on stablecoins.

stablecoins, you don't have to worry about the volatility. There's something called impermanent loss.

We'll probably talk about it later, but we'd kind of discovered that when you have two coins that

are volatile, you get this impermanent loss. And if you're stablecoin to stablecoin, you really

don't have that. So we've eliminated that risk. And it was like two days later or something. They

rug-pulled and it was like collectively lost like $1.2 million or so. Yeah, not a great day.

Rug-pulls when they just disappear the protocol. Yeah, so it's a normal, I mean, there's different

ways that they can rug-pull. But one of the most common ways would be doing something like

infinite minting, which is basically your tokens are in there and there's a token pair, right?

And so they will print like a billion of this token and sell it. And as a result, it just drains

all the other, the liquidity from the other side out and off they run with it. So that's one way,

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