We're going to be unpacking the politics of the day, telling you everything you need to know

about the local elections and much more joining me now, two huge political brains.

The former Tory special advisor, Salma Shah, who is also the director of Cracken Strategy. Welcome to the show, Salman.

Thank you. And the political strategist, John McTiernan, a former director of political operations for Tony Blair in number 10.

Welcome to the show, John McTiernan. Great to be on with both of you. Delighted to have you, John.

As we record this, the big story of these local elections in England, Merrill Alexander. Great to be on with both of you. Delighted to have you, John.

As we record this, the big story of these local elections in England, Merrill elections and won by-election, is the rise of reform UK.

Nigel Farage promised a turquoise wave and he's got it.

A new MP in Runcorn-Helsby, its first mayoral election victory in Greater Lincolnshire,

and coming second to Labour in other Merrill races.

Salma Shah, is this permanent, or is it a mere blip for the main political parties?

Well, I mean, I think the problem is that there's a trend. So it's not that whether it's permanent or not, it's just that it repeats all the time because reform was the Brexit party. It was UKIP before that and it seems to be gaining traction. I think the problem is that mainstream parties just don't know how to deal with them. And if you've heard any of the interviews that have come out from the Conservatives or the government today, it doesn't feel like that that's being rectified

either in their messaging or their understanding of actually what's happening in the electoral

system. And it's not just reform. We've also got more results that are going to come out that

might place the Greens and the Lib Dems further up. So actually you're looking at a bigger fragmentation

as part of that trend, whether we can rectify that or not and come back to these broad

church political parties, mainstream parties, is dependent on how we react to it now.

I think the fragmentation thing is very interesting and we'll just talk about that probably

as we carry on analyzing this.

But the big, big story for reform that they want to get across,

and they'll be repeating constantly, is that they are going to replace the Tories as the opposition.

Is that feasible?

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