You're listening to the political scene.

I'm David Remnick.

Early each week, we bring you a conversation from our episode of The New Yorker Radio Hour.

We've seen in recent months and weeks something absolutely unprecedented in politics,

a range of prominent security and military officials and Republican politicians

have not only come out against Donald Trump,

but they've also declared him a security threat, unfit, and in some cases a fascist.

Let's not lose sight of how unique that is.

Way out in front of this trend was Liz Cheney. Up until 2021, Cheney was the third-ranking Republican in Congress.

Then after the January 6th insurrection, Cheney voted to impeach Donald Trump, and she served as vice chair of the House Committee investigating January 6th.

She knew that would cost her her seat in Congress, and it did.

Wyoming voters sent her packing.

Since I last spoke with Liz Cheney about her memoir, Oath and Honor, she's taken the step of campaigning on behalf of Vice President Harris.

We spoke last week at the New Yorker Festival.

You know, I've obviously been around campaigns for a long time, and I have a, having had, I think, a perspective that very few people have,

having been deeply involved and engaged inside Republican presidential politics and now on the other side,

you know, when I look at having spent time on the road campaigning with Vice President

Harris, having watched her interact with and talk to independent voters, undecided voters,

we are very closely divided nation, there's no question. But when you think about at the

end of the day, what is really moving people is what a second Trump term would mean for the women of this

country. And women, and I say this, you know, as someone who has been pro-life,

but there are women across this country who are watching what's happening in places like Texas,

...