What does it mean that the Christian is an outsider in one's community?

How do we engage our divisive culture well and faithfully at the same time?

And what might your particular style for cultural engagement might that be?

We'll answer these questions and a whole lot more with our guest, Pastor Patrick Miller,

around his new book that he's co-authored

with his co-pastor Keith Simon called Joyful Outsiders, Six Ways to Live Like Jesus in a Disorienting

Culture. I'm your host, Scott Ray.

I'm your co-host, Sean McTowell.

This is Think Biblically from Talbot School of Theology at Biola University.

Patrick, thanks so much for joining us on this.

I really appreciate your book. Super insightful stuff, and I think we'll be really helpful to our

listeners to establish their particular style with which they engage the culture that we're in.

It's an honor to be here with you both.

So tell us how has what you've both experienced as pastors in this divisive culture

motivated you to write about this particular subject?

Well, I don't know about you too, but I do not like one size fits all clothing.

I think it should be called one size fits none clothing because it never fits right.

And I think when you go to a lot of churches, you'll find that they have one or maybe two ways

that they orient themselves towards their community, towards their culture.

You know, so you have art churches where everybody's talking about the arts and culture,

and you have prophetic churches or everybody's protesting and maybe they're a little bit

more political. You have what I call trainer churches, churches where they emphasize discipleship,

...