Listen to this: The What, Why and How of Intellectual Humility

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Wisconsin Public Radio

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🗓️ 7 February 2024

⏱️ 33 minutes

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Summary

Today we're bringing you a conversation from "Kelly Corrigan Wonders." As a podcaster, Kelly is a kindred spirit – curious, genuine, caring — and this conversation is from a series about one of TTBOOK’s own core values – intellectual humility. It’s about the magic that happens when we stop trying to be right all the time.

In this episode, Kelly talks with researcher and academic Daryl Van Tongeren about how we come to conclusions and what, if anything, can interrupt the creation of overconfident, under-researched, ironclad, and divisive by nature convictions.

Daryl teaches at Hope College in Michigan and researches the social motivation for meaning and its relation to virtues and morals.

Transcript

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0:00.0	Hey friends, it's Anne. Today we're bringing you a conversation from Kelly Corrigan Wonders. As a podcaster,
0:07.6	Kelly is a kindred spirit, curious, genuine, caring. And this conversation with Daryl Van Togran
0:14.1	is about one of T.T. Books' own core values, intellectual humility. It's about the magic
0:20.3	that happens when we stop trying to be
0:22.1	right all the time. I hope you enjoy the conversation.
0:30.2	Welcome back to Kelly Corgan Wonders. My conversation partner today is an academic named
0:35.6	Daryl Van Tongeren, and he's helping me to understand the ins and
0:39.6	outs of something called intellectual humility.
0:45.9	One little trick is, well, as you said, kind of writ large, there's a fear that like,
0:51.9	okay, I'll do it if you'll do it.
0:55.1	But like, I don't want to be the dummy who's like, tell me more about your point of view. And then the conversation ends. And they
1:00.2	never say, well, why are you pro choice? Though, I must say, I'm pro choice. And I've had several
1:06.8	incredible conversations with people who are pro-life. But they were as considered and sincere in their beliefs as I feel that I am,
1:22.4	which goes to this other trick, which is that most of us think this isn't other people problem.
1:30.4	Most of us rate ourselves kind of highly as like we are intellectually humble, but man,
1:37.4	you just can't find anybody out there who is.
1:41.2	Oh, absolutely.
1:41.9	Most people say humility is exactly what I want in a partner, right? Or what I want in my friends. But please don't ask me to do that, right? It's a lot more work. You're absolutely right. It's something we want in others. But the irony of that is not lost on me, that if it's something that we believe that we need to cultivate collectively,
2:01.6	we have to start with ourselves. I can't force anybody to be humble. The moment I try to force someone
2:06.5	to be humble, what I'm probably doing is humiliating them. And humiliation is different than humility.
2:12.1	Right. Humility comes from within, and it has to, we have to willingly engage in humility.
2:18.8	And it is a little bit like a prisoner's dilemma, right? It's like we both are turning the, you know, the keys at the same
	...

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