But it turns out that science and spirituality certainly can go hand in hand,

and that science is a lens, and we can point to a great host of questions,

including the impact of lived spirituality in the human life course,

or perhaps the origins or ideology of lived spirituality.

Hello and welcome to the Psychology podcast. Today we welcome Dr. Lisa Miller,

the founder and director of the Spirituality Mind Body Institute. Her innovative research has

been published in more than 100 peer review articles in leading journals, and she is the New York

Times bestselling author of The Spiritual Child, and most recently The Awakened Brain.

In this chat today, we mostly focused on The Awakened Brain, and what I really like about Lisa

is that she's a really nice combination of rigorous scientist and a really spiritual person

herself. We had a really nice chat that was personal, and it felt like talking to an old friend.

I also like how we nerded out over the statistics and all the little nuances of this emerging

science of transcendence and spirituality. She's a real pioneer in the field, and it's my real great

delight to bring her to this audience. So without further ado, I would like to introduce you to Dr.

Lisa Miller. Well, Dr. Lisa Miller, it's so delightful to have you on the Psychology podcast.

It's so great to be here Scott. Thank you for including me, including The Awakened Brain. I've

so enjoyed following your work, and I think we are transcendent first cousins.

I think so too. I'll take that. I really like that. I've been really enjoying your work and

and reading in your latest book, reading your journey to such detail. It was very, it was read like

more like a novel than a science book. I actually learned that from my students that, you know,

oftentimes in the first 10 years of my 20 years at Columbia teaching, I would teach about things,

and then I'd ask everyone in the class what they thought. And one day I was going through my

...