Lawfare Daily: Steve Brooks and Ben Vagle on U.S.-China Economic Competition

The Lawfare Podcast

The Lawfare Institute

Military, Intelligence, International Law, Constitutional Law, Rule Of Law, Politics, International Relations, News, Government, History, Diplomacy, Terrorism, National Security, Current Events, Law, Foreign Policy

4.7 • 6.2K Ratings

🗓️ 13 August 2025

⏱️ 58 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

In their new book, “Command of Commerce: America’s Enduring Economic Power Advantage Over China,” Steve Brooks and Ben Vagle argue that the United States’ economic advantage over China is much larger than is commonly believed. They contend that if the United States were to cut China off from the U.S. economy and from the economies of U.S. allies, China would suffer significantly more than the United States.

Matt Gluck, Executive Editor at Executive Functions, spoke with Brooks and Vagle about the size and nature of the gap in economic power between the two countries, the importance of U.S. alliances in maintaining economic leverage over China, why decoupling from China now would undermine this leverage, and more.

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.

Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Transcript

Click on a timestamp to play from that location

0:00.0	The following podcast contains advertising.
0:04.4	To access an ad-free version of the Lawfare podcast, become a material supporter of Lawfare at
0:11.5	patreon.com slash lawfare. That's patreon.com slash lawfare.
0:18.2	Also, check out Lawfare's other podcast offerings, Rational Security, Chatter,
0:25.2	Lawfare No Bull, and The Aftermath.
0:33.5	Hey, it's Adam Grant from Worklife, a podcast from TED. This episode is brought to you by FreshWorks.
0:40.1	FreshWorks believes the complexity is the enemy of efficiency.
0:43.3	So stop wrestling with bloated expensive service software that takes forever to implement an update,
0:48.4	where ROI is someday, not today.
0:51.1	You've been overcharged and underserved for way too long.
0:54.8	Uncomplicate with fresh service for IT and fresh desk for customer support.
0:59.4	And with FreshWorks AI assisted service software, you'll work smarter, not harder.
1:05.1	FreshWorks uncomplicates.
1:07.3	Learn more at freshworks.com.
1:14.3	Only Learn more at freshworks.com. Only 3.8% of the parts and components in the iPhone, roughly $16 worth of it, come from China.
1:23.1	So it's not a Chinese phone.
1:25.0	But in terms of exports, it's being counted as Chinese, which radically skews not just
1:30.0	our understanding of the trade deficit, but our understanding of how capable China really
1:36.1	is.
1:37.9	It's the Lawfare podcast.
1:39.4	I'm Matt Gluck, executive editor at Executive Functions, with Steve Brooks, Professor of Government at Dartmouth,
1:46.8	and Ben Vagel, an incoming JD PhD candidate at Stanford. If it is just the United States
	...

Transcript will be available on the free plan in 5 days. Upgrade to see the full transcript now.

Previous episode | Next episode

Disclaimer: The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from The Lawfare Institute, and are the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Tapesearch.

Generated transcripts are the property of The Lawfare Institute and are distributed freely under the Fair Use doctrine. Transcripts generated by Tapesearch are not guaranteed to be accurate.