Lawfare Archive: How Much Trouble is NATO Really In? with Scott R. Anderson
The Lawfare Podcast
The Lawfare Institute
4.7 • 6.2K Ratings
🗓️ 8 March 2025
⏱️ 61 minutes
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Summary
From February 26, 2024: At a South Carolina campaign rally on Feb. 10, former President Donald Trump told a crowd of supporters that while he was president he told “one of the presidents of a big country” in the NATO alliance that he would not protect that country from a Russian invasion if that country didn’t pay. Trump then said, “In fact, I would encourage them to do whatever the hell they want. You got to pay. You got to pay your bills.”
Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler McBrien sat down with Lawfare Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson to talk through Trump’s NATO comments, why they’re rattling European allies, whether a U.S. president could destroy the alliance, and how Congress might stop it. They also talked about why everyone here at Lawfare calls Section 1250A of the recent National Defense Authorization Act the “Anderson Saves NATO” provision.
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Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | The following podcast contains advertising. |
| 0:04.4 | To access an ad-free version of the Lawfare podcast, become a material supporter of Lawfare at |
| 0:11.5 | patreon.com slash lawfare. That's patreon.com slash lawfare. |
| 0:18.2 | Also, check out Lawfare's other podcast offerings, Rational Security, Chatter, Lawfare No Bull, |
| 0:26.9 | and The Aftermath. |
| 0:46.7 | I'm Carolyn Cornett, intern at Lawfare, with an episode from the Lawfare Archive for March 8th, 2025. |
| 0:53.7 | In the past week, the longstanding relationships between the United States and its allies in Europe and NATO has continued to deteriorate, |
| 0:56.2 | with the U.S. ending military assistance to Ukraine, Elon Musk and Senator Mike Lee calling |
| 1:01.7 | for the U.S. to withdraw from NATO, in Europe announcing a rearmament package, signaling they no |
| 1:08.7 | longer believe they can depend on the U.S. for security. |
| 1:12.2 | For today's archive episode, I selected an episode from February 26, 2004, in which Tyler |
| 1:19.3 | McBrion spoke to Scott R. Anderson about then-candidate Donald Trump's comments about the |
| 1:24.2 | NATO alliance. They discussed his assertion that he would not protect a NATO |
| 1:28.9 | country from a Russian invasion if that country didn't pay. Why his rhetoric rattled European allies, |
| 1:36.1 | whether a U.S. President could destroy the alliance and how Congress might stop it. |
| 1:47.7 | I'm talking aboutBrion, managing editor of Lawfare, and this is the Lawfare podcast, February 26, |
| 1:54.1 | 2024. |
| 1:55.5 | At a South Carolina campaign rally on February 10th, former President Donald Trump told a crowd |
| 2:00.0 | of supporters that while he was president, he told, quote, one of Donald Trump told a crowd of supporters that while |
| 2:01.0 | he was president, he told, quote, one of the presidents of a big country in the NATO |
| 2:05.0 | alliance that he would not protect that country from a Russian invasion if that country didn't |
| 2:09.3 | pay. Trump then said, quote, in fact, I would encourage them to do whatever the hell they want. |
... |
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