This show proudly sponsored by Real American Freestyle Wrestling.

The Freebirth Society made millions selling a simple message to pregnant women.

You don't need ultrasounds, doctors, or midwives.

You can free birth.

But behind the scenes, terrible things were happening.

I feel ashamed about this, but I didn't think that the deaths were bad until a year after I left.

Subscribe to the Guardian Investigates feed to get all the episodes of The Birthkeepers.

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Hey, Harry. Hello, mate.

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Neil

My name's not Neil

I know but it rhymes Listen to Harry and make your best bet on the football at BetVictor. 18 plus opt in and bet on any football marketing at odds of evens or greater no, cash out seven-day expiry terms and conditions apply at gambleaware.org. And joining us now, former Senator, Kirsten Cinema. Senator, welcome back. Oh, welcome. Well, it's wonderful to be with you. And it was wonderful to meet you in person yesterday. Yes, even though you were honest, you don't watch much television, right? You have no idea. Yeah, I don't. I actually watched no television. Did that hurt you as a senator? Did you sometimes miss some issues because you didn't know what no no in fact i got i got the

news faster because i would wake up and read it every morning okay so and you can i can read a lot

faster than i can listen and so i actually was able to get more information faster um but you know

the truth is brian i actually just didn't even own a TV.

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