4.6 • 640 Ratings
🗓️ 9 December 2024
⏱️ 87 minutes
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0:00.0 | We will hear argument first this morning in case 23909, Cossesis versus United States. |
0:06.0 | Mr. Fisher. |
0:07.3 | Mr. Chief Justice, and may it please the Court, the property fraud statutes require a scheme to defraud as understood at the common law. |
0:16.2 | And such traditional fraud requires a scheme, if completed as dev devised to harm a traditional property interest. |
0:23.1 | And our position is no such harm occurs if somebody pays money in exchange for something |
0:28.6 | and gets the full economic value of that bargain. The government asks this court to chart a |
0:34.3 | different path. It argues that a property interest is harmed in a property |
0:40.1 | fraud case whenever somebody gives money pursuant to a fraudulent misrepresentation. |
0:48.3 | That would cause three major problems. First, it would flout decades of this court's precedent. Indeed, it would |
0:56.1 | allow prosecutions just like McNally, Simonelli, the hypothetical and skilling, and others that |
1:02.0 | the court has said are beyond the reach of the fraud statutes. Second, the theory is incompatible |
1:07.2 | with the historical origins of fraud. In an 1893 case, it's representative of the time, the Kansas Supreme Court said, |
1:14.8 | even though money is obtained by misrepresentation, if no injury occurs, no crime is committed. |
1:21.6 | That sentence is incomprehensible under the rule the government argues today, |
1:25.8 | which says that any time there's misrepresentation that procures money, that itself is injury. |
1:31.3 | And thirdly, and perhaps most decisively, the government's theory knows no bounds. |
1:36.7 | Every day across the country, people use white lies, puffery, and other fraudulent promises to induce people to enter into transactions. |
1:46.4 | But if there's no harm that occurs in those transactions, there is no fraud. |
1:54.1 | That's what the government, I'm sorry, that's what this Court has said time and again in this |
1:57.9 | court's cases, as the government has tried to concoct one theory after the other |
2:01.8 | to work around that. Such misrepresentations might be a civil violation, they might be a tort |
2:08.8 | violation, a contract violation. They might even be a low-level criminal violation. But the one thing |
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