The episode you're about to listen to was released back when the mere Christians podcast was called the call to mastery

Now if you love mere Christians, you're still going to love these older episodes because the majority of each

conversation focuses on how the gospel influences the work of our guests. With that disclaimer out of the way, please enjoy the episode.

Hey everybody, welcome to the call to mastery. I'm Jordan Rayner. This is a

podcast for Christians who want to do exceptional masterful work for the glory of God

and the good of others.

Each week I'm hosting a conversation

with a Christian who is world-class

and whatever it is that they do.

We talk about their path to mastery,

we talk about their habits, their routines that make them productive,

and we talk about how their faith influences their work.

I'm over the moon excited about today's episode with Kevin Cloud. Kevin was a four-time

successful church planter who recently made the shift of focusing his time and

energy on writing about the intersection of faith and creativity. I met Kevin a few months ago when after he sent me a copy of his book, God and Hamilton, yes, like Alexander Hamilton, and the musical phenomenon that his life inspired.

And you know, usually when I see books like this, I'm skeptical of them.

It's very rare that I've seen them done well, but I am obsessed with the musical, so I agreed to read the book,

and I was totally blown away. I feel like every conversation I have with people

right now, I'm telling them they have to read this book.

Honestly it's one of the best books I've read probably in the last five years.

Kevin is a truly masterful writer, so he was gracious enough to come onto the call mastery and

talk about a few things first we spend some time talking about Alexander

...