I'm Roberta Glass and welcome to my true crime report.

Today we're going to be talking about Kathleen Zellner and her 100 grand offer for the real killer of Teresa Hallback with Meredith Elizabeth, who has done many episodes with me about this topic.

Welcome, Meredith. Thank you for having me. Always a pleasure

to talk about Stephen Avery in his representation. Yeah, you really know everything about this case.

Can you talk about how you got interested in this case and how your opinion changed?

Well, yeah. I wasn't a true crime fan. Making a murderer was the first, like, real documentary I had watched, and I was horrified at the end and could not believe such a miscarriage of justice had happened. And I found out when I started reading that they had left a lot out of it. And, you know, when you watch making a murder, it's possibly did it, but,

you know, the police looked a little corrupt. But the more you run into it, he's probably the

most guilty man I've ever seen. There's really no way he couldn't have done it with all the

evidence against him. Yeah, it's really remarkable how much evidence there is against him.

It's not really a close case, in my opinion, at all. No, it's really remarkable how much evidence there is against him. It's not really a close case,

in my opinion, at all. No, it's, you know, most of the cases you can, you know, like the West Memphis

3, I can come up with a one or two percent chance on how they didn't do it since there's not

really physical evidence linking them. So there's a small possibility.

It's tiny that they didn't do it.

And most of the cases, there's a small possibility or plausible reason you can come up with how they didn't do it.

In the Avery case, there's so much evidence that he did it that for him have not to do it,

someone else would have had to commit the crime

and not only that, but then plant a tremendous amount of evidence with his skin cells,

with his DNA, with his saliva, with her DNA on his stuff. It's just implausible. That there's

no realistic option that he didn't do it. That sort of makes sense. And that's why Zellner's motions get real

wacky and very entertaining. Yeah, we're going to talk about those motions in a second. So,

who is Kathleen Zellner? And how did she get involved in the Avery case? Kathleen Zellner is an

...