Kastrup vs. Vervaeke: Mind Upload and the Shadow (Round 2 Debate)

Theories of Everything with Curt Jaimungal

Curt Jaimungal

Physics, Philosophy, Society & Culture, Science

4.6 • 606 Ratings

🗓️ 22 May 2021

⏱️ 252 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

I personally subscribe to The Economist. TOE listeners get 35% off the annual subscription. No other podcast has this! https://economist.com/TOE Bernardo Kastrup and John Vervaeke on mind uploading, shadow integration, and consciousness.0:00 Introduction2:32 Summary of Round 110:29 Best counter to John's and Bernardo's position28:42 Vedanta, Brahma, and Lucid Dreaming40:45 Local vs global consciousness, and meta-consciousness43:40 Psychedelics and experiencing "mind at large"46:10 Whitehead and prehension51:40 John and Bernardo have moved closer (philosophically) to one another55:39 On Karl Friston's "inference"52:30 How to improve as an interviewer57:46 Transjectivity, and rejecting both the blank slate and romanticism1:02:42 Bernardo started out as an "objectivist"1:08:15 Mind Uploading is nonsense1:12:58 Joscha Bach knows nothing about consciousness1:24:12 There's no "simulation" of consciousness. Who's the illusion occurring to?1:29:56 Growth doesn't stop when you're 20. We need more than the propositional.1:36:03 "Idolatry of the nerds" and how "thinking" is just one function of the psyche.1:39:25 Respecting the elderly1:41:52 Having mode vs. the Being mode1:48:05 Love is a kind of knowing. On "agape"1:58:30 Love is a part of nature, but not the only part.2:05:54 How to integrate the Shadow2:10:57 The processes that make us adaptive, make us self deceptive.2:13:18 Internal family systems therapy2:21:08 Curt's personal confession2:28:12 We think we must "win" but we must surrender. Surrender to what you are.2:34:40 Trying not to try2:40:05 Personal stories of darkness, from John and Bernardo2:50:50 Self knowledge, self acceptance, and "participating" in this world2:54:34 Bernardo and John are the opposite of how they seem. John is more "woo" and Bernardo is anti-"woo"2:58:37 Bernardo's shadow3:01:35 We need to reintegrate humor in spirituality3:05:28 How to build the modern religion?3:33:44 Where you can find more about John and Bernardo3:39:36 BONUS [MrChocolateCookie] The paradox of trying not to try3:44:07 BONUS [Queerdo] Veganism and spiritual bypassing3:57:03 BONUS [David] What did you enjoy most about this conversation?3:59:33 BONUS John takes Curt through a breathing exercise4:01:28 BONUS The theolocution process is vehement but filled with loveSPONSORS:- Patreon: https://patreon.com/curtjaimungal- Crypto: https://tinyurl.com/cryptoTOE- PayPal: https://tinyurl.com/paypalTOE- Twitter: https://twitter.com/TOEwithCurt- Discord: https://discord.com/invite/kBcnfNVwqs- Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/better-left-unsaid-with-curt-jaimungal/id1521758802- Pandora: https://pdora.co/33b9lfP- Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4gL14b92xAErofYQA7bU4e- Reddit r/TheoriesOfEverything: https://reddit.com/r/theoriesofeverythingRESOURCES:- John Vervaeke: https://www.youtube.com/user/johnvervaeke- Bernardo Kastrup: https://www.youtube.com/user/bernardokastrup- Better Left Unsaid: http://betterleftunsaidfilm.com Theories of Everything with Curt Jaimungal features long-form, technically detailed interviews with leading researchers in physics, mathematics, consciousness, and philosophy, exploring topics at the level of active research. For academics, graduate students, and anyone seeking depth beyond popular science. FOLLOW: Substack | Spotify | YouTube | Twitter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0	This channel is about investigating theories of everything.
0:03.0	Now, that includes string theory or M theory or some flavor of string theory.
0:08.0	E8, Geometric Unity, even Wilfrum's model.
0:11.0	In fact, I'm speaking with Wilfrum in about a week.
0:13.0	But also, broadly speaking, it encompasses Velton Shaulungs.
0:17.0	That is, a philosophical, comprehensive theory of everything.
0:24.9	Hence, the following two guests, Bernardo Castro and John Verveke.
0:30.7	Bernardo Castrop holds a PhD in computer science and philosophy, and is defending idealism.
0:36.0	That is, the ontology, that all that exists is the mental, in fact, we're all part of one mind, which he calls mind at large.
0:38.8	John Verveiki, on the other hand, is an associate professor at the University of Toronto near me
0:43.5	in cognitive science, advocating for naturalism. My name is Kurt Jymungle. I'm a filmmaker and the host
0:49.5	of this podcast with a background in math and physics. This is a theolocation, which is rather than critiquing
0:56.3	and sparring, it's about constructing and building and understanding the other's position
1:02.0	consonant with love, hopefully. Round one is linked below in the description, and it's imperative
1:07.7	that you watch that first, or at least look at the timestamps and skip
1:11.4	around a few times in order to gain a bird's eye view of their respective philosophies and
1:15.6	where they agree slash disagree. Today I welcome the podcast's first sponsors. Algo is an
1:21.0	end-to-end supply chain optimization software company with software that helps business users
1:25.9	optimize sales and operations,
1:28.3	planning to avoid stockouts, reduce returns and inventory write downs while reducing inventory investment.
1:34.3	It's a supply chain AI that drives smart ROI.
1:37.3	The second sponsor is Brilliant.
	...

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