Kastrup vs. Vervaeke: Idealism vs. Naturalism (Round 1 Debate)

Theories of Everything with Curt Jaimungal

Curt Jaimungal

Physics, Philosophy, Society & Culture, Science

4.6 • 606 Ratings

🗓️ 1 May 2021

⏱️ 224 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

I personally subscribe to The Economist. TOE listeners get 35% off the annual subscription. No other podcast has this! https://economist.com/TOE Bernardo Kastrup and John Vervaeke debate metaphysical idealism, naturalism, consciousness, and the meaning crisis.0:00 Introduction8:50 Green Room9:43 Context Exposition10:33 Intros12:53 Vervaeke Deep Continuity Rationalist16:18 BK Analytic Idealist19:14 Emergent Exploration22:33 Plausibility Construct26:33 Psychosocial Plausibility29:12 Science and Consciousness30:03 Culturally Manufactured Emergence33:30 Normative Pragmatism34:56 Disciplined Plausibility36:02 Scotus and Ockham38:44 Incoherent Notion of Being40:48 Relativity and Alien Abduction47:18 Individuating Consciousness51:33 Standard Hume Empiricism52:22 Elegance vs Realism53:40 Nominal vs Ontic Partitioning58:28 Questioning the Experiencer1:01:18 Meta‑conscious Reflective Attention1:03:03 Hume's Straw Man1:04:16 Self and Meta‑consciousness1:06:33 Dissociative Folded Reflection1:08:08 What is the Self1:09:33 Therapy Timeout1:15:11 Solving the Meaning Crisis1:17:33 Unbalanced Analytic Rationality1:19:17 Idolatry of Nerds1:26:24 Fluid Compensation for Physicalist Facade1:28:42 Wrong Images of the World1:32:27 Flat Ontologies and Depth Dimension1:34:21 Obviousness of Experience1:36:54 Normative Longing for Transcendental Noumenal1:40:00 Meaning and Ontology1:44:40 Meta‑meaning Worldview1:51:05 Defining Existence1:56:44 Drinking from Fount of Intelligibility1:58:29 Behind the Scenes2:01:33 Where Do You Disagree Most?2:04:33 Real Field Harmonics2:06:11 Grounding Monism & Spinoza Modes2:15:01 Observation Beyond Dissociation2:16:16 Space/Time Framework of Language2:18:02 New Age Disavowal2:19:13 Difference In Kind2:24:20 Emergence Threshold2:26:37 Inducing Dissociation in Universal Mind2:30:33 Meta‑consciousness Reportability2:34:40 Jung and Meta‑consciousness2:38:00 Metacognition and Dissociation2:43:22 Beyond Own Dissociation Boundary2:45:55 Mental Dissociative CharacterSPONSORS:- Patreon: https://patreon.com/curtjaimungal- PayPal: https://bit.ly/2EOR0M4- Discord: Join with code dmGgQ2dRzS- Reddit: https://reddit.com/r/theoriesofeverythingRESOURCES:- YouTube link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWcTmeAs44I- Curt's interview with JV alone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3p8o3-7mvQc- Curt's interview with BK alone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAB21FAXCDE- Twitter: https://twitter.com/TOEwithCurt- iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/better-left-unsaid-with-curt-jaimungal/id1521758802- Pandora: https://pdora.co/33b9lfP- Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4gL14b92xAErofYQA7bU4e- JV's YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/johnvervaeke- JV's "Meaning Crisis" series: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54l8_ewcOlY&list=PLND1JCRq8Vuh3f0P5qjrSdb5eC1ZfZwWJ- BK's YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeDZCa3VrRQvzBlVR-oVVmA Theories of Everything with Curt Jaimungal features long-form, technically detailed interviews with leading researchers in physics, mathematics, consciousness, and philosophy, exploring topics at the level of active research. For academics, graduate students, and anyone seeking depth beyond popular science. FOLLOW: Substack | Spotify | YouTube | Twitter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0	Excuse this long introduction, it's a bit different, but this preface can be skipped.
0:05.0	You can go to the timestamp there if you want to get straight to the Bernardo Castro and John Verveci conversation.
0:10.0	Many of you may be new to this channel, and if so, my name is Kurt Jiamengel.
0:14.0	I'm a filmmaker, as well as I have a background in math and physics and I'm intensely interested in something called theories of everything. Now this includes the standard unified field theories that I'm sure you've heard of, but it
0:25.0	also includes the philosophical theories of everything, such as that of Carl Fristons or
0:30.0	Donald Hoffman's or Ian McGilchrist's, each of whom I've interviewed on this channel, and the
0:35.6	links will be in the description.
0:36.5	This episode features two titans of their respective positions.
0:41.2	Bernardo Castro defending idealism.
0:43.6	That is the philosophical doctrine that we are all part of the same mind,
0:47.6	or at least that all that exist are mental states rather than a material reality.
0:51.4	Whereas John Verveci takes the position of monism and naturalism.
0:54.5	When I speak to the different prodigious interviewees on this channel, I generally ask them
0:59.0	about their views on other intellectuals, such as Douglas Hofstetter, or what do you think
1:04.0	of Roger Penrose's idea of orchestrated objective reduction, and so on, and I, in a tongue-in-cheek
1:10.0	manner, call it Theomaki, that is to say, Battle of the gods.
1:14.6	Now, clearly, this is facetious because it's a sin, or at least I think it's a sin to consider any human a god,
1:20.3	but there is some truth in the sense that they're godlike and their intellectual and cognitive prowess.
1:26.5	However, this episode is different.
1:29.2	First of all, it's the first time I've had on two people at once.
1:32.8	And I'm less interested in critiquing that is battling, skirmishing,
1:37.2	than I am about getting the interviewees to understand one another's positions
	...

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