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Hello, in 1907, Sigmund Freud met a young man and fell into a conversation that's reputed to have lasted for 13 hours.

The man was the Swiss psychiatrist Carl Gustav Jung. Freud is celebrated as a great pioneer of the 20th century mind,

but the idea that personality types can be introverted or extroverted, that certain archetypal images and stories repeat themselves constantly along the collective history and memory of mankind,

and that personal individuation is the goal of life all belong to Jung.

Your vision will become clear only when to you look into your heart, who looks outside dreams, who looks inside awakens, he declared.

And he also said, show me a sane man and I'm all curing for you.

Who was Jung? What was the essence and influence of his thoughts and how did he become such a controversial and for many such a big giling figure?

With me to discuss, to discuss Carl Gustav Jung is Andrew Samuels, professor of analytical psychology at the University of Essex and a Jungman analyst in clinical practice, Ronald Hamen, writer and biographer of Jung,

and Brett Carr, senior clinical research failure in psychotherapy and mental health at the Centre for Child Mental Health in London, and a practicing Freudian.

Brett Carr, it's difficult to talk about Jung without bringing in Freud, so he had a profound influence on him, on each other in a way.

How did they meet and when did they meet?

They first met in 1977 in person at this famous 13 hour meeting that you referred to.

It's extraordinary to think that an intellectual conversation could go uninterrupted.

In fact, in his autobiography, Freud's eldest son Martin remembers the day that Jung first came to the Freud family home in Vienna.

And he says at one point Mrs. Freud called them in for a meal and Jung completely ignored the rest of the Freud family and he directed all his attention to Freud.

It was quite an extraordinary meeting of these two great minds.

What was the seed of that powerful attraction?

They had corresponded previously. Jung had sent Freud some of his writings, including a book that he had written on schizophrenia, then called Dementia Precox and late 19th century term for schizophrenia.

And it had been very much heavily based on Freud's writings and Freud was very much attracted to this.

Freud was also quite attracted to Jung because Jung was one of the first non-Jewish people to take a serious interest

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