Welcome to Hard Talk on the BBC World Service with me, Stephen Sacker. My guest today revels in his

reputation as one of South Africa's most controversial politicians. Julius Malema is self-styled

president and commander-in-chief of the economic freedom fighters, an organization that is part political party, part populist

street movement with paramilitary overtones.

Malema's activism began early.

He was a child member of the ANC in the last triumphant days of the struggle against apartheid.

In 2012, he was expelled from the ANC for labelling

then-President Zuma a dictator. Right now, it is the current president, Cyril Ramaphosa,

who is in Malema's crosshairs. The EFF leader once Ramaphosa toppled and impeached

following allegations of dodgy cash stashed on the president's

farm. With the economy in a mess, power cuts and mass unemployment stoking discontent, is Julius

Malema pushing his country towards chaos? Well, he joins me now on the line from Blumfontein in

South Africa. Welcome to Hard Talk.

Thank you very much. Mr. Malema, South Africans are facing a very grave economic crisis. There's deep uncertainty in the country. Why are you adding to that uncertainty by calling for the removal of President Ramaphosa.

It's the most logical thing that when a leader of a government doesn't perform well

or the country is in a crisis, that leader should leave office and give others an opportunity you can come and do a much better

work because I don't think that Mr Ramaphosa has got a coherent plan as to how he's going to

save South Africa. But that's not the way democracy works, Mr. Malema. Mr. Ramaphosa has a mandate given to him by the

South African people. And indeed, if you look at the business community, if we're talking about the

economy, it seems business leaders think that removing Ramaphosa would actually make South Africa's

situation worse. No, democracy work like that. That's why our constitution

provide for the resignation of the president or impeachment or motion of no

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