Joseph Smith and the Keys of the Universe - John Turner Pt. 25 | Ep. 2097
Mormon Stories Podcast
Dr. John Dehlin
4.6 • 5.2K Ratings
🗓️ 19 December 2025
⏱️ 105 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
In today’s episode, we dive into Chapter 21 titled “Keys” from Dr. John Turner’s new book “Joseph Smith: The Rise and Fall of an American Prophet.” This chapter cover the pivotal years of 1839-1840, as the Saints leave behind the trauma of Missouri and begin building a new gathering place in Commerce (soon to be Nauvoo), Illinois.
We pick up the story right after Joseph Smith escapes Liberty Jail, exploring how he reclaims leadership, rebuilds momentum, and introduces new theological ideas that will shape Latter-day Saint doctrine for generations.
Dr. Turner –writing as a never-Mormon historian –gives us a clear-eyed look Joseph’s rapid return to power, the purchase of Nauvoo lands, the arrival of the mummies and papyri, early missionary ambitions in Europe, evolving doctrines about angels and theosis, and Joseph’s bold claims about “keys” –including what Turner calls “the keys of the universe.”
We also get into the politics: Joseph’s 1840 trip to Washington, his audience with President Martin Van Buren, and the Saints’ ongoing fight for redress. And yes –we discuss everything from healings during the malaria outbreak to phrenology, patriarchal blessings, lineage theories, dynastic sealings, and even the perennial question: Was Joseph Smith actually good-looking?
Please purchase the book here.
To support this series please donate here. One half of all donations will go to Dr. Turner for as long as he is participating in the series.
___________________
At Mormon Stories we explore, celebrate, and challenge Mormon culture through in-depth stories told by members and former members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as well as scholars, authors, LDS apologists, and other professionals.
Our overall mission is to:
1. Facilitate informed consent amongst LDS Church members, investigators, and non-members regarding Mormon history, doctrine, and theology
2. Support Mormons (and members of other high-demand religions) who are experiencing a religious faith crisis
3. Promote healing, growth and community for those who choose to leave the LDS Church or other high demand religions
🤝Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today
One-time or recurring donations: https://donorbox.org/mormon-stories?default_interval=m
Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/mormonstories
Venmo: https://account.venmo.com/u/mormonstories
Paypal: https://paypal.me/mormonstories
Join this channel to get access to perks:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCx6OgmoqJbOVRq-Lv1P7SzA/join
Our Platforms:
🌐Mormon Stories Blog: https://www.mormonstories.org/episodes
🎙️Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/mormonstories
✳️Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4sDzk7dRjODTSEqzZKZJzk?si=148b0efc1ccc4404&nd=1
🍎Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/mormon-stories-lds/id312094772
🖼️Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mormstories
📱TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@mormonstoriespodcast
🎮Discord: https://discord.com/invite/kuX5p6yyjF
Contact us:
📬PO Box 171085, Salt Lake City, UT 84117
Transcript
Click on a timestamp to play from that location
| 0:00.0 | Hello, everyone, and welcome to another edition of Mormon Stories podcast and the Joseph Smith podcast. |
| 0:05.7 | I am your host for today, John DeLinn. It is December 8th, 2025. We are here to discuss again, |
| 0:13.3 | Joseph Smith, the rise and fall of an American prophet with Dr. John Turner. Today we're covering |
| 0:20.8 | Chapter 21, which is called Keys, which comes on the heels of our |
| 0:26.1 | Liberty Jail episode. |
| 0:28.1 | We're covering the time period of 1839 to 1840. |
| 0:31.9 | Lots of fun things to talk about today. |
| 0:34.4 | We love John Turner because he's never been Mormon. He's a top-notch |
| 0:39.5 | U.S. historian slash scholar. He wrote a biography on Brigham Young before he wrote a biography on |
| 0:46.0 | Joseph Smith. And we love that he's good-natured, knowledgeable, willing to call balls and strikes. |
| 0:55.0 | And before we jump into today's episode, we have to talk college football, John Turner. |
| 1:01.3 | You were a little too gleeful at the prospect of BYU, not making the playoffs and your |
| 1:06.4 | alma mater, Notre Dame, making it what say ye on December 8th, 2025? |
| 1:14.3 | Even Joseph Smith got some things wrong. |
| 1:17.9 | So I don't, I, and he never apologized, at least hardly ever. |
| 1:24.8 | So I guess I don't need to feel too badly either. |
| 1:27.4 | I feel certainly i i feel that |
| 1:32.3 | notre dame got screwed by the committee i feel like the irish were definitely one of the top |
| 1:38.4 | 10 teams in the country i don't think uh other teams in the field this year would have relished playing them. |
| 1:47.7 | Maybe we should just get the Cougars and the Irish together for a bowl of the excluded or |
| 1:53.6 | something like that. Well, I hear Notre Dame declined to even go to a bowl game, which is a little bit |
| 1:59.3 | spicy, don't you think? It is a little bit spicy, don't you think? |
... |
Transcript will be available on the free plan in 26 days. Upgrade to see the full transcript now.
Disclaimer: The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Dr. John Dehlin, and are the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Tapesearch.
Generated transcripts are the property of Dr. John Dehlin and are distributed freely under the Fair Use doctrine. Transcripts generated by Tapesearch are not guaranteed to be accurate.
Copyright © Tapesearch 2025.