Welcome to the Colette Podcast. My name is Claire Lehman and I am editor and chief of Colette.

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Hi I'm Toby Young one of Colette's London-based editors.

Last weekend Colette published an essay by Aaron Sabarian, a young assistant editor at the American

interest, when the conservative themes buried just beneath the surface of

Avengers Endgame. I invited Jonah Goldberg, author of Suicide of the West and many other best-selling books, to join

Aaron and me on the Colette Podcast to discuss Aaron's hypothesis.

Shortly afterwards, Jonah tweeted, just recorded one of the most intensely nerdy, eggheady podcasts ever.

Thank you very much for doing this.

Let's kick off. I thought what we do is we first talk about

the Dark Night Rises, which I think Ben Shapiro described as possibly the greatest conservative movie ever made.

And then I thought we'd move on to the MCU in particular talk about Black Panther and

then get into the meat of the discussion which is is Avengers end game

essentially a conservative film but let's begin with the Dark Night rises

Jonah would you have any argument with Ben Shapiro's description of it?

Well, I love the Dark Night Rises. I think it's still unequivocally the best

superhero movie ever made.

In part, I've long argued, which is a subject for a whole other podcast,

...