Jon Meacham on How the Trump Fever Breaks

The New Yorker Radio Hour

WNYC Studios and The New Yorker

Politics, Arts, News, Wnyc, Books, David, Storytelling, Society & Culture, Yorker, New, Remnick

4.2 • 6.2K Ratings

🗓️ 31 March 2023

⏱️ 31 minutes

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Summary

In 2018, at the midpoint of the Trump Presidency, the journalist and historian Jon Meacham wrote a book called “The Soul of America,” warning of the gravity of Trump’s threat to democracy. This was hardly a unique point of view, but Meacham’s particular way of putting things, steeped in a critical reverence for American history, hit home with one reader in particular: Joe Biden. In the years since, Meacham became an informal adviser to Biden, helping him recently with the State of the Union address. Meacham, who has written biographies of Thomas Jefferson, Andrew Jackson, George H. W. Bush, John Lewis, and, now, Abraham Lincoln, reflects on the vulnerability of American democracy in the current moment, with an overt autocrat as the leading Republican contender for the next Presidential election. “Having a dictatorial figure is not new either in human experience or American history. What is new is that so many people are willing to suspend their better judgment to support him,” he says. “I am flummoxed to some extent at the durability of partisan feeling.” Plus, the music critic Kelefa Sanneh on a fleet of artists bringing fresh sounds to what has become the least cool genre: mainstream rock. He shares tracks by HARDY, Giovannie & the Hired Guns, AVOID, and Jelly Roll.

Transcript

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0:00.0	This is The New Yorker Radio Hour, a co-production of WNYC Studios and The New Yorker.
0:09.6	Welcome to The New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick.
0:13.1	Donald Trump's contempt for democracy is a matter of fact.
0:17.1	An impulse registered again and again throughout his presidency in its aftermath.
0:22.5	As so many, including those in his circle, warned, he would never accept legitimacy of Biden's
0:27.9	election. And of course, he provoked an insurrection, attempting to stop that election,
0:33.6	and he has faced no consequences for it so far.
0:37.6	There was some buzzing after the midterm elections that Trump's influence on the GOP had finally burned out,
0:43.8	but the fact is that he's running for president and he leads the Republican field.
0:49.9	In 2018, at the midpoint of the Trump presidency,
0:53.3	the journalist and historian John Meacham wrote a book called The Soul of America, and it warned of the gravity of Trump's threat to democracy.
1:02.1	Now, this was hardly a unique point of view, but Meacham's particular way of putting things, steeped in a kind of critical reverence for American history, hit home with one reader in
1:12.5	particular, Joe Biden. And in the years since, Meecham became an informal advisor to Biden, helping him
1:19.5	with the last state of the union address and other speeches. John Meecham's books include biographies
1:24.9	of Jefferson, Jackson, George H.W. Bush, John Lewis,
1:29.2	and Abraham Lincoln. We spoke last week. John, the press spends a huge amount of time obsessing
1:37.1	about the odds, the mood, the events of the day. Let's talk about the stakes. As we witness the renewed and unending tragedy of Donald Trump,
1:47.7	his candidacy, his battles with the law from New York to Georgia to D.C., what is at stake now in this
1:55.2	latest chapter? What's at stake is whether America now has 47 or 48% of the likely electorate to show up in 2024, who are more likely than not to vote for an overtly autocratic figure for President of the United States.
2:18.7	Someone who has explicitly said that the rule of law should not apply to him.
2:26.0	The results of free and fair elections should not be obeyed if he loses them.
2:31.1	The District Attorney of New York under the auspices and direction of the Department
	...

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