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Hello and welcome to another episode of National Security magazine.

I'm David Rothkoff, your host, and we are fortunate to be joined today by John McLaughlin,

former acting director of Central Intelligence,

deputy director of Central Intelligence, Deputy Director of Central Intelligence, a career

leader in the intelligence community and one of the most thoughtful

commentators on issues of intelligence and national security that I know anywhere.

I think the natural place for us to start is that we just saw the release of a national intelligence strategy in which the threats that

were cited from sources like the Russians were to, you know, the international order that we had been fighting for 75 years to put together and threats to

Western democracy and so on and it and it struck me in in reading it that this was a not very well

veiled list of threats that were associated directly with the

president of the United States with his policies on NATO with his alignment

with the Russians with his desire to cover up hostile interference in our elections and so forth and

I thought that was extraordinary but do you know this world better than anybody else and I was

wondering what your reactions were. Well similar David I I guess I was not

surprised you could I guess I was not surprised. You could say that there were threats to the global order before

Trump, but I think it's fair to say that his policies have only accentuated the threat in a number of ways.

First, Global Order is one of those terms that people throw around and you have to ask

...