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The Political Scene | The New Yorker

Jimmy Kimmel and the Power of Public Pressure

The Political Scene | The New Yorker

The New Yorker

Politics, Obama, News, Wnyc, Washington, Barack, President, Lizza, Wickenden

4.23.3K Ratings

🗓️ 27 September 2025

⏱️ 47 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

The Washington Roundtable discusses how, in the wake of the reinstatement of Jimmy Kimmel’s show, public resistance has a chance to turn the tide against autocratic impulses in today’s politics. They are joined by Hardy Merriman, an expert on the history and practice of civil resistance, to discuss what kinds of coördinated actions—protests, boycotts, “buycotts,” strikes, and other nonviolent approaches—are most effective in a fight against democratic backsliding. “Acts of non-coöperation are very powerful,” Merriman, the former president of the International Center on Nonviolent Conflict, says. “Non-coöperation is very much about numbers. You don’t necessarily need people doing things that are high risk. You just need large numbers of people doing them.” 

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Transcript

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0:00.0

I was walking down the street yesterday.

0:02.3

I just parked my car.

0:03.4

My phone buzzed, and it was the indictment of James Comey.

0:06.0

We all knew this could happen, but this feels to me like an absolute threshold moment.

0:12.0

I was going back and looking at Watergate.

0:13.8

I mean, we have had sort of persecutions using the power of the government against perceived enemies of a president,

0:20.8

but it was considered

0:22.0

the biggest blot on our history. And we've rivaled that, if not surpassed that.

0:28.8

And what's remarkable, of course, this is, Trump is Richard Nixon on steroids. And he personally,

0:36.8

in writing, has ordered the Justice Department to do this,

0:40.1

and they carried out his wishes with remarkable speed.

0:46.3

Welcome to the political scene from the New Yorker, a weekly discussion about the big

0:50.1

questions in American politics. I'm Evan Osnowson. I'm joined as ever by my colleagues

0:54.8

Jane Mayer and Susan Glasser. Hi, Jane. Hey, Evan. And hi, Susan. Hey, there. Great to be with you

1:00.7

guys. Today on the show, new dominoes falling in the assault on democracy. Just in the last few days, we've seen

1:12.5

the indictment of a former FBI director, James Comey, and a directive from the Justice Department

1:18.0

to investigate and perhaps prosecute George Soros' philanthropic vehicle, the Open Society

1:24.2

Foundations. There has also, however, been a surprising bit of news, what we might call the fall and rise of Jimmy Kimmel, his abrupt return to late-night television after his suspension last week, delivered something very rare in today's politics, a moment in which it felt as if perhaps some complicated combination of public resistance actually

1:46.7

turned the tide. And we're going to look into that today. To help us answer these questions,

1:51.9

we're turning to Hardy Merriman. He's an expert on the history and practice of civil resistance.

1:57.3

He's written extensively over the years about authoritarianism and the forces that can chip away at its power.

2:03.4

He's helping identify some patterns of action and cooperation that can mean a lot in a moment like this.

...

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