Hello and welcome to this day in esoteric political history from radiotopia.

My name is Jody Avergan.

This day January 1802 President Thomas Jefferson writes a letter to members of the Danbury

Connecticut Baptist Association in which he references that the First Amendment of the Constitution effectively sets up a quote

wall of separation between church and state. And it's from that letter that we get what is one of the core

and most contested ideas in American political and religious life,

this idea of a separation between church and state.

And we will get into how it's been contested and interpreted and how that phrase says as much about

Jefferson's religious beliefs and political calculations as much as anything.

It is worth noting that a couple days after writing this letter, what did Jefferson

do? Well he attended a church service,

and not just the church service,

but one that was held literally inside the House of Representatives.

So maybe that tells us a little something

about what separation between these two bodies meant to him.

But here to discuss that letter and the origins of the church state divide is, as always,

Nicole Hammer of Vanderbilt. Hello, Mickey.

Hello Jody.

And we should say that Kelly Carter Jackson is not with us today.

She had knee surgery to bring in the New Year.

What a wonderful way to mark a New Year.

But she is at home.

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