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Jacobin Radio

Jacobin Radio: The Least Unjust Peace in Ukraine? w/ Oleksandr Kyselov

Jacobin Radio

Jacobin

Socialism, History, News, Left, Jacobin, Alternative, Socialist, Politics

4.71.5K Ratings

🗓️ 16 December 2025

⏱️ 78 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Suzi talks to Oleksandr Kyselov and Alyssa Oursler about what’s being sold to the world as “peace” in Ukraine, and what it looks like from the standpoint of Ukrainians who are actually living through the war. Trump’s 28-point plan for Ukraine — drafted behind closed doors by his real estate ally Steve Witkoff and a Russian sovereign wealth fund chief — reads less like diplomacy and more like a property deal: Russia gets the land, the US takes its cut, Europe foots the bill, and Ukraine is told to choose between surrendering now or surrendering later — with little input in the process.

Ukrainian political analyst Oleksandr Kyselov argues that what’s on the table is not a just peace but an “imperial carve-up,” and that Ukrainians are forced to fight for “the least unjust peace” that can realistically be won today. Then journalist Alyssa Oursler, reporting from Kyiv, describes how Ukrainians are reacting to the plan — from sudden funerals to conversations with leftists and soldiers who say Trump has prolonged the war and treated Ukraine as a bargaining chip.

We ask what a real peace would look like, why Ukrainians fear being forced into this deal, and what international solidarity from the Left ought to mean now.

Read Oleksandr’s Jacobin article, “Ukraine Faces and Imperial Carve-Up”: https://jacobin.com/2025/12/ukraine-russia-war-concessions-trump

Support for Jacobin Radio comes from The Regrettable Century podcast: https://regrettablecentury.buzzsprout.com/220523

Jacobin Radio with Suzi Weissman features conversations with leading thinkers and activists, with a focus on labor, the economy, and protest movements.

Transcript

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0:00.0

This is Jacobin Radio. I'm Susie Wiseman.

0:16.0

Today we're looking at what's being sold to the world as peace in Ukraine and what it looks like

0:21.2

from the standpoint of Ukrainians who are actually living through the war. The Trump administration's

0:26.5

28-point peace plan for Ukraine drafted behind closed doors by his real estate ally Steve Whitkoff

0:34.2

and a Russian sovereign wealth fund chief reads less like diplomacy and more like a

0:39.2

property deal. Russia gets the land, the U.S. takes its cut, Europe foots the bill, and Ukraine

0:45.0

is told to choose between surrendering now or surrendering later with little input in the process.

0:51.0

We began with Ukrainian political analyst Alexander Kisselov, a socialist from

0:56.5

Danyetsk and a researcher at Uppsala University. His recent writing argues that what's on the table is

1:03.1

not just peace at all, but an imperial carve-up, and that the Ukrainian left is fighting for what he

1:09.2

calls the least unjust peace, under conditions

1:12.5

of military exhaustion, political turmoil, dependency, and mounting pressure from competing

1:18.6

imperialisms in Washington and Moscow. We then go inside Ukraine with journalist Alyssa Ursula,

1:25.5

whose new report from Kiev captures what this peace plan

1:29.1

looks like through the eyes of people living and fighting there. She spoke with soldiers,

1:34.0

left intellectuals, and ordinary Ukrainians in bookstores on streets and during funeral processions.

1:41.0

Her piece shows how Trump's policies have already worsened the war, delaying air defenses, increasing civilian deaths, and deepening Ukrainian sense that their fate is being negotiated without them.

1:53.0

We'll also talk about what a real peace would look like, why Ukrainians fear being forced into a deal that rewards aggression,

2:04.8

and what international solidarity from the left ought to mean now?

2:09.0

Two perspectives that give a picture of a society under pressure resisting both Russian aggression and being treated as a bargaining chip by global powers.

2:13.9

All this when our program returns in just a moment.

2:30.7

Support for Jacobin Radio comes from the Regrettable Century podcast.

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