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So on this edition of Into the Frey, I have on with me Dr. Ken Dugan. He is the author of several books, all of which are available right now on Amazon.

He has over 30 years of confronting the powers of darkness.

And this particular episode, we are going to be covering his book Wicked Spirits, examining the current view of the paranormal.

He, in this book, challenges contemporary views of the paranormal as insufficient and dangerous.

And Ken, of course, first of all, welcome on. And second of all, I know from reading within that you've had your own personal experiences with seemingly really very powerful entities.

So I know that we'll probably touch on some of those stories, at least a couple of them.

And of course, the chapter, the trouble with demons, which you pointed me to, which had my, my jaw dropping as I kept reading that.

So, I mean, where do you want to start here? Like, how did you even, how did you get into ministry work? What made you want to get into that?

Well, I was, I kind of took a secluded route to minister, but I did grow up being very interested in anything that was supernatural paranormal, that sort of thing, because it just so happened in the little town that I grew up.

There was only one house between me and the oldest graveyard in town. So that cemetery became kind of a playground for my friends and I, you know, would literally go up there late in the evening, just as kids,

and send the biggest tree near as the biggest tombstone and tell just the wildest ghost stories that we could possibly tell.

And then, you know, before long, our imaginations are going wild, and now we're seeing things behind tombstones and walking behind buildings and hearing things.

And, but that didn't dissuade us that actually kind of got our interest up more to where my best friend and I used to ride our bikes back in the days where you could just take out and ride your bike as far as you wanted to ride.

And we would look for abandoned homes and we would look for haunted houses. And so I was kind of into that and then, of course, I had, I guess maybe one of the first paranormal experiences I ever had.

And this is the years before I ever even considered going into Christian ministry, which is just as a kid living there next to that graveyard that a lady in her husband lived next to us between us and the graveyard sweet lady that, you know, when my mom was gone,

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