Now, many months ago, and I appreciate now, were seven months in to the murderous onslaught,

of course, against Gaza by the Israeli state, backed by the US government, the US government, the British government and other

Western governments. I interviewed the brilliant Raseigal who is

associate professor of Holocaust and genocide studies and one of the reasons

as it's so important, is from the very start, he said we need to

listen to what Israeli leaders and officials were saying.

And that intent was so rarely so openly spoken and that's so

important because actually what Israeli leaders and officials said from

the start proved the most accurate roadmap map to what they actually did.

They were not kidding as it turned out and yet there was a catastrophic failure deliberately I would say to listen to what

Israeli leaders actually said they were going to do.

Now, given what's happened with the International Criminal

Court and the International Court of Justice,

the other, what's very important we need to talk about

is about the question of impunity, has impunity for now collapsed?

Is that the end of Israeli impunity?

There's other things I would talk to you and Raz is the perfect person to speak to about all of this sort of stuff.

So hello, how are you?

Hello, Owen.

Thanks for having me again.

It's always an honor to have you.

Honestly, so glad we're talking again.

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