4.2 • 3.3K Ratings
🗓️ 5 August 2024
⏱️ 43 minutes
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Israel has occupied the West Bank of the Jordan River since 1967, after the third Arab-Israeli war, and ever since Israelis have settled on more and more of this contested land. Violence by armed settlers against their Palestinian neighbors has increased dramatically in recent years, as a far-right government came to dominate Israeli politics. Unless things change, the American journalist Nathan Thrall tells David Remnick, the future for Palestinians is “not unlike that of the Native Americans.” Thrall won a Pulitzer Prize for his book “A Day in the Life of Abed Salama,” which uses one isolated incident—a road accident in the West Bank—to illustrate the ways in which life under occupation has become nearly unlivable for Palestinians. On July 19th, the United Nations’ International Court of Justice issued an advisory ruling that the occupation violates international law. While the world’s attention is focussed on the devastating war in Gaza, and the escalating conflict between Israel and Hezbollah, the occupation of the West Bank remains a fundamental challenge for any peaceful resolution.
Remnick also speaks with the Palestinian lawyer and author Raja Shehadeh, a longtime advocate for peace with Israel who lives in Ramallah. Palestinians “are, in a sense, living under a different law than the law of the settlements. And so the settlers are going to be part of Israel, and the laws of Israel apply to them—and that's annexation—but not to us. There will be two communities living side by side, each subject to different laws, and that’s entirely apartheid.” Shehadeh’s new book is titled “What Does Israel Fear from Palestine?” He argues that, as much as a concern for their security, many Israelis refuse to contemplate a two-state solution because recognizing Palestinians’ claims to nationhood challenges Israel’s national story. Although Thrall believes that any false hope about an end to the conflict is damaging, he acknowledges that U.S. sanctions on violent settlers is a meaningful step, and Shehadeh sees the I.C.J.’s ruling as a new degree of global pressure. “That could bring about the end of the era of impunity of Israel,” Shehadeh believes. “And that can make a big difference.”
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0:00.0 | This is the political scene and I'm David Remnick. |
0:07.0 | Welcome to the New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick. |
0:15.0 | I was reporting in the Middle East recently and while I was there, I spent a day driving around the West Bank with a couple of people who know it very well. |
0:25.4 | An Israeli peace activist named Yaju Shawl and the American journalist Nathan Thraw. |
0:32.0 | For Ramallah to Bethlehem, there's no traffic for an Israeli Jew, |
0:37.2 | can be. |
0:39.2 | 35 minutes? |
0:40.3 | No traffic? |
0:41.3 | No traffic. |
0:42.3 | Of course, yeah, nothing. |
0:43.0 | Okay, for a Palestinian, you can't go through Jerusalem. |
0:45.8 | So you're taking this what's called Wabinar, which is a terrible set of bias, thin bypass roads with hairpin turns and you would go all the way around like this to get to Bethlehem |
0:59.2 | two hours and it'll be two hours the Israeli's just going to go straight through. |
1:05.0 | We weren't making small talk about the traffic. In the West Bank, which road you're allowed to use, where you're allowed to go, and what identification |
1:15.4 | card you have. These are just some of the aspects of the Israeli occupation, the |
1:19.9 | architecture of the occupation. |
1:23.4 | With the airstrikes from Hezbollah this week and the assassination of a Hamas leader in Iran, the war |
1:28.8 | in Gaza threatens still to become an even wider regional conflict. |
1:34.1 | We're going to talk about one of the most intractable sources of this conflict, |
1:38.5 | Israel's occupation of the West Bank. |
1:41.6 | The occupation began after the Six Day War in 1967, when Israel seized control of the West Bank |
1:48.1 | and Gaza, and with each passing year, more and more Israelis have been settling on |
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