This is democracy now, democracy now.

The War and Peace Report.

I'm Amy Goodman with Nermann Sheikh, as we continue with part two of our discussion with Ailva Itseman, the founder of forensic architecture.

In part one of our discussion, we looked at a report published by the research group, Forensic Architecture, which counters Israel's argument at

the International Court of Justice that it followed humanitarian policies to

safeguard civilian life in Gaza. South Africa argued in January before the ICJ that Israel was guilty of genocide

during its war on Gaza. The report argues that what Israel says are humanitarian evacuations in Gaza actually amount to the forced displacement

of Palestinians, which is a war crime.

For more we continue in London with Eel Weitzman, a British Israeli architect who's the founder of forensic

architecture and professor of spatial and visual cultures at Goldsmiths College at the University of London.

He's the author of several books including Hallaland, Israel's architecture of occupation, and

the least of all possible evils, a short history of humanitarian violence.

He's also a member of the Technology Advisory Board of the International Criminal Court

and of the Center for Investigative Journalism.

Aoy, thank you so much for staying with us.

Eana, I'd like to begin by talking a little bit more about the background of forensic architecture and how you came to do this work,

you wrote a piece in 2019 called Open Verification.

You say in the piece that more than a decade ago, I would have found the idea

of a forensic institute to be rather abhorrent, you wrote. But you said that your position changed in response to changes in the

texture of our present and to the nature of contemporary conflict.

So if you could, you know, know elaborate on that what changes are you

referring to and how does this particular form of research respond more

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