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In a new essay for the New Yorker, writer Leslie Jameson, profiles the researchers who have devoted their careers to describing the real and sometimes terrible

consequences of perfectionism in its various manifestations.

We'll talk about this work with Jameson, and we've got a couple of therapists with us this morning,

too, to help us understand how to deal with this particular cast of mind. They're all coming up about perfectionism this morning. The show was inspired by a new essay by Leslie Jamison and The New Yorker that makes the case for taking perfectionism seriously

as a component of mental health. Perfectionist tendencies can have serious repercussions, especially

in combination with other conditions. And Leslie Jamison joins us first this morning. She's the

author of the empathy exams as well as splinters, another kind of love story. Welcome

back, Leslie. Great to be back, Alexis. So as someone who I think would rate very low on perfectionist

tendencies as our live radio listeners can probably attest, can you talk to me a little about what

we've learned about the psychology of perfectionism and how it manifests?

Well, one of the most fascinating things for me in reporting and writing this piece was just really learning to differentiate between, you know, ambition, striving towards excellence, determination, like all of these traits that we

might think of as very adaptive parts of especially professional life and perfectionism,

which is really something more toxic and ultimately self-destructive, which is to say,

you know, as some of the researchers I talked to told me, like, one of the ways you know it's perfectionism is like reaching the milestone doesn't help.

So getting the grade you want, acing the test, getting the job, you know, rocking the job.

...