Hi, this is Ava from Vanta. In today's digital world, compliance regulations are changing constantly,

and earning customer trust has never mattered more. Vanta helps companies get compliant fast and stay

secure, with the most advanced AI automation and continuous monitoring out there. So whether

you're a startup going for your first SOC 2 or ISO-27,001, or a growing

enterprise managing vendor risk, Banta makes it quick, easy and scalable. And I'm not to say

that because I work here. Get started today at banta.com.

Hello and welcome to coffeehouse shots. I'm James Seale and I'm joined today by the historians Anthony Beaver and Peter Frank Pan.

Now this weekend it marks 80 years since the end of the Second World War.

So Anthony, how do you think our memory, a collective memory of that, has changed in the intervening decades since that occasion?

Well, I think we're in a very, very strange moment.

History is seldom tidy, and normally there are overlaps and unfinished business stretching

from one era to another. But suddenly, 80 years, as we are now, after the end of the Second World War, which established an international

order of respect, sovereignty, and for borders, we're facing a guillotine moment, which cuts us off

completely from the past. We're back to the 1930s idea of dictators that might is right.

And I wonder, Peter, I mean, it's not just

of course, in terms of military power as well. We see all across the globe the kind of tenants at the post-war era, however good or by they may have been, but seemingly collapse. You know, you look, for instance, at the kind of post-Bresson-Woods financial system, what remains of that, you see, look at the ECHR. Why do you think now so many kind of these

shibbolists, these great institutions of that era are now being challenged? Well, I think the first

thing is that who they're being challenged by. I mean, I think that most people recognize that

there's a sort of new axis emerging. And it's a very loose grouping, I suppose, bricks or, you know,

bricks plus places like China, Russia, Iran, India,

Brazil, asking for greater sharing global governance. But I think it's important to note that

it's not just coming from developing world or from autocracies. When Mark Carubio is being sworn in

...