I would say insecurity is a major problem. If the disciple is an insecure person and finds too much

personal gratification from the disciple, then it can become very dangerous. It can become like a cult

where you begin to control people and don't give them the freedom to make choices of their own,

which sometimes are different to our own choices.

And so that is something that the humility part comes in when we realize we are limited people,

we are just fostering them to go close to Jesus, not to us.

Welcome to the Crossway podcast, a show where we sit down with authors each week for thoughtful

interviews about the

Bible, theology, church history, and the Christian life. I'm Matt Tully, and today I'm talking with

Ajith Fernando. Ajith currently serves as the teaching director of Youth for Christ in Sri Lanka.

After serving as the ministry's national director for 35 years, he and his wife currently live in

Sri Lanka where they work in ministry to the

poor as well as mentoring young pastors and church leaders. He's the author of many books

including Discipling in a Multicultural World from Crossway. Today, Ajith and I discuss the

critical importance of personal disciplining relationships for every Christian. He shares why

he thinks there's a discipleship crisis in the church

today, even among pastors and church leaders, how to think about the value of structured

discipleship programs and common mistakes to avoid when entering into a disciplining relationship.

Let's get started.

Ajif, thank you so much for joining us on the Crossway podcast today.

Thank you. Nice to be with you.

So you're a prolific author. I think you've written, is it 17 books now or maybe 18 books? Do you know?

...