This is The New Yorker Radio Hour, a co-production of WNYC Studios and The New Yorker.

Welcome to The New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick. One constant of Donald Trump's career in politics has been his belief that voting is rigged against him.

He finds fraud even in some elections that he wins,

like in 2016 when he said that Hillary Clinton got the popular vote

only because of people he called illegals casting ballots.

In 2020, the conspiracy theory of the stolen election

led to the attempted insurrection of January 6th,

and that conspiracy theory remains an article of faith for many Republicans.

After his comeback victory in 2024, Trump is once again sowing doubt. This time, though,

he has the absolute loyalty of the executive branch to pursue his every suspicion.

He's called for an end to mail-in voting everywhere. Meanwhile, Pam Bondi's Justice Department

has demanded sensitive voter information from at least 34 states so far. Now, under the

Constitution, it's the states that have the authority to conduct elections.

But the states are now coming under pressure to do exactly what the executive branch tells them.

Now, how big a problem is all of this?

And do we really have to worry now about having free and fair elections in America.

I brought those questions the other day to Mark Elias.

Mark Elias is a top election lawyer for the Democrats

whose firm fought and won nearly every case

that Trump and his allies brought against the 2020 election.

Mark, we're going to be talking a great deal about fair and unfair elections, a subject that has a lot to do with the deep divisions in our political culture.

But to be more precise about it, we're talking in the wake of a horrific and tragic assassination of Charlie Kirk.

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