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The Town with Matthew Belloni

Is Streaming Killing Music—or Saving It? With a Top Spotify Exec

The Town with Matthew Belloni

The Ringer

Society & Culture

4.3847 Ratings

🗓️ 19 May 2025

⏱️ 30 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Matt is joined by Spotify’s global head of music vertical, Charlie Hellman, to talk about the current state of the music industry, how the music streaming era has impacted artists, how artists actually get paid by Spotify, competing with YouTube, the surge in AI-generated music, and artists’ biggest frustrations with Spotify (02:27). Matt finishes the show with a prediction about President Donald Trump’s $20 billion lawsuit against CBS (26:07). Disclaimer: This podcast is produced by The Ringer, which is owned by Spotify. For a 20 percent discount on Matt’s Hollywood insider newsletter, ‘What I’m Hearing ...,’ ⁠⁠click here⁠⁠.Email us your thoughts! ⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠ Host: Matt Belloni Guest: Lucas Shaw Producers: Craig Horlbeck and Jessie LopezTheme Song: Devon Renaldo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

If you care about Hollywood, and I assume you do if you're listening to the town, you should really be getting the whole story about Hollywood.

0:06.2

That's what you get with Puck.

0:07.5

I'm a founding partner at Puck, and I write a newsletter called What I'm Hearing.

0:10.6

It's got exclusive news for insiders and analysis of the biggest stories.

0:14.9

Puck has a bunch of great journalists.

0:16.5

We just hired Kim Masters, who also covers Hollywood from the inside, plus media, sports, fashion,

0:21.7

politics, and finance. It's a must have for plugged-in people. Fans of the town get a

0:26.6

discount on the description page of this episode or at puck.news slash the town. Go further into

0:32.1

Hollywood by becoming a puck member today. It is Monday, May 19th.

0:38.8

Pretty much since the moment music became shareable online and music streaming services

0:43.4

started popping up, there's been a tug of war over the royalties that those services pay

0:47.9

out.

0:48.7

The artists, record labels, and music publishers all believing those payouts should be higher.

0:53.5

That's especially true at Spotify, which is the leader in audio streaming worldwide.

0:57.2

They've got 268 million paid subscribers as of the first quarter,

1:01.5

678 million monthly active users, both numbers up about 10% year over year.

1:06.8

Remember, the music labels were initial investors in Spotify,

1:09.9

yet as the platform has grown,

1:11.7

it's often been looked at skeptically by artists and their representatives.

1:15.5

Taylor Swift famously pulled her music a decade ago over the low artist payouts, particularly

1:19.7

on the ad-supported free tier of the service.

1:22.7

But lately, Spotify has been aggressively countering that narrative.

...

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