From The Times and the Sunday Times, this is the story.

I'm David Wood, I'm the crime editor at the Times.

One night last year, I arrived back at my station in South London in the early hours of the morning.

I went to collect a train ticket, and as I I stood at the machine I noticed a couple of kids.

They couldn't have been older than 13. On their own, in the middle of the night, a rucksack on their back and an ancient phone in one of their hands.

I watched as they waited. People stream passed and paid them no attention, but I recognised the signs.

As a crime reporter, I spent hours sitting on press benches in courts all around the country.

And I've seen these kids, or kids like them, in the dock, looking bored as their barristers

explain how they got wrapped up in selling class A drugs for county lines gangs.

Now, we've been talking about county lines all week, focusing on how the police have been fighting back against drug organisations in York.

But that moment, in the station, made me want to hear directly from the children actually

involved in county lines. And then I met Mike. That's not his real name. He's in his early

20s and he stopped selling drugs for a county lines gang a few years ago. He agreed to tell me

all about his experiences for the very first time.

The story today, on the line.

Episode 4, Mike.

Like those kids I saw in the station, Mike spent his early years in London.

My life was pretty fun for the most part.

I had a lot of friends.

I used to be growing out often, but I was a bit rough as well.

What do you mean?

Like the area I did live in, wasn't the richest growing up. There was a bit of violence around my area, some loose screws, I would say.

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